Tolkien in General

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Post by azriel on Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:12 am

hee hee, yeah Smile

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Post by halfwise on Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:03 pm

So here's a question: why come Tolkien felt content to cram nearly the whole of the Silmarillion, a much vastier story expanse than the LotR, into Beriliand, yet when writing LotR felt compelled to expand by a linear scale of 5 to 10, with of course 30 to 100 times the area? Did it just take him that long to realize he had scrounched everything into an area the size of Britain and perhaps he should expand to west/east European scales?

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:25 pm

What do you mean though, because the Silmarillion's setting includes such far-flung places as the bay of Cuivienen where the elves awoke, to Forochel, to Numenor, to Aman. Vasty stretches in-between indeed.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:49 pm

That elf awakening story doesn't interact much with lands they pass through, and is a miniscule part of the whole story. Something about the misty mountains and then suddenly they're on the shores of the sea. Forochel is all of a couple of paragraphs. Numenor didn't get added until LotR. Aman doesn't count.

90% of the stories are all in this area about the size of Mordor. Then you get to stuff written during the Hobbit and after LotR and the territory explodes.

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Post by halfwise on Wed May 20, 2020 12:06 pm

I'm sure many of us have mixed feelings about Michael Martinez. I somewhat disagree with his answer to point #2: Tolkien clearly stated in The Hobbit that for the Misty Mountain orcs at least, sunlight makes their legs wobbly.

https://www.toptentopia.com/10-popular-but-wrong-ideas-fans-believe-about-j-r-r-tolkien-middle-earth/

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed May 20, 2020 12:19 pm

{{ On point 1- isn't there a reference somehwere in Tolkien to elf ears being 'leaf-shaped'? Or am I misremembering? Which would indicate if not pointy then tapering at least. }}

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Post by halfwise on Wed May 20, 2020 12:29 pm

Martinez has this link: https://middle-earth.xenite.org/do-tolkiens-elves-have-pointy-ears/

but whereas he uses this as evidence against pointy ears, I would draw the opposite conclusion.  Martinez's arguments seems to be that as we don't have slam-dunk evidence of pointy ears, we should believe they do not have pointy ears.  I would take the converse: since we do have some evidence of pointy ears, he wouldn't have mentioned it at all unless it was a strong possibility. We are not talking about the real world where the assumption of normality should weight our judgement; we are talking about fantasy characters which we should assume from the outset are different from normal human beings. I call martinez's logic absolutely flawed.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Fri May 22, 2020 7:01 pm

halfwise wrote:I'm sure many of us have mixed feelings about Michael Martinez.  I somewhat disagree with his answer to point #2: Tolkien clearly stated in The Hobbit that for the Misty Mountain orcs at least, sunlight makes their legs wobbly.

https://www.toptentopia.com/10-popular-but-wrong-ideas-fans-believe-about-j-r-r-tolkien-middle-earth/
Not only that, but the swiftest of the goblins were selected to run through the dark tunnels after the fleeing dwarves, Gandalf, and Bilbo. Was this possible because of their intimate knowledge of the tunnel systems, or because they could see at least a little in the dark?

This list is dumb. Entries like "Did Tolkien hate technology?" are bullshit. As the author points out, Tolkien "expressed deep regret at the way modern industrialization was eating away at the landscape and transforming human society." That is what people think of when they think of Tolkien's views on industry, not this straw-man nonsense about hating all technology.


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Post by azriel on Sun May 24, 2020 7:25 pm


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