The Hobbit: Style over Substance

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:23 pm


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Post by azriel on Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:28 pm

Well Figginbottom Smile He got that pin pointed Smile I agree with what he said. I have never enjoyed forgetting a film as I did The Hobbit ! utter shat ! But what this chap said about LOTRs I do agree with.

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Post by Eldorion on Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:26 am

I'm not sure if I've seen that video before or one like it, but I think he makes a lot of good points. Thumbs Up For as disillusioned as I've become with PJ, though, I have a hard time believing that he really thought the superficial elements of LOTR were what made it successful. At the very least, Walsh and Boyens, as writers on both trilogies, would have known better. But for whatever reason (IMO a badly backfiring attempt at merging the substance of LOTR with the substance of TH) the films ended up as what we got.
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Post by Radaghast on Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:05 pm

Agreed for the most part. Certainly agreed with the parts that criticize The Hobbit Trilogy.

It's funny, I didn't notice his accent until a few minutes into the video.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:34 pm

That was excellent!

I can't be bothered to add anything to the discussion right now, but I liked the idea of comparing mid-points of the movies and it was funny that Boromir's gif-worthy "One does not simply..." gets its own subtitles. Razz

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Post by Eldorion on Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:48 am

A few other worthwhile YouTube critiques of The Hobbit. Both are multi-part but I'm only embedding the first of each in here. Pretty sure they've been posted on here before but I can't be arsed to go find the relevant threads.



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Post by azriel on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:02 am

Oh Eldo, you sound so English when you say ..........
"Pretty sure they've been posted on here before but I can't be arsed to go find the relevant threads."  Very Happy

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Post by Eldorion on Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:57 pm

Well I liked the expression but saying "can't be assed" just sounds weird. Too close to "asked" maybe? Shrugging It's the only time I use the word/pronunciation "arse" though.
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Post by azriel on Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:03 pm

I use "arse" for just about everything Laughing

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:40 pm

I've noticed. Laughing

Personally I don't use arse ever, just like I never say ass. But I'm quite partial to the phrase "bugger off", even though it is quite rude in its usual usage. It's the same principle as swearing in a different language. There's no emotional impact behind it.

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"'But whereas we have drunk with thee, who seemest to be a man of lineage, and thou hast been blithe with us, we will tell thee that we have seen one riding south along the Greenway, clad in a coat as green as the way, with the leafless tree done on his breast. So nigh to him we were that we heard his cry as he sped along, as ye may hear the lapwing whining, for he said: "POINT AND EDGE, POINT AND EDGE! THE RED WATER AMIDST OF THE HILLS!" In my lifetime such a man hath, to my knowledge, been seen thrice before; and after each sight of him followed evil days and the death of men.'"

-The Well at the World's End, William Morris
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Post by azriel on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:02 pm

Yeah, I like "bugger off" also Smile It was the only swear word my grandad ever used. No one else in my family ever swore. I started swearing in my teens & now, unless Im in a right stinking mood or richly provoked I dont feel the need, can be boring really ? Tho I do get fed up with people F-ing every other word they say

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Post by David H on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:52 pm

What I don't understand is how "arse" became a verb in that phrase, but I've always been too shy to ask.... Embarassed

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:06 pm

Thanks Eldo for that first video link. I've been watching his series and in the fourth one he demonstrates how the "Feast of Moonlight" music could be applied to any scene between two characters to make it look like they're falling in love. He chooses when Bilbo introduces the idea of a riddle-game to Gollum. It's perfect. Laughing

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"'But whereas we have drunk with thee, who seemest to be a man of lineage, and thou hast been blithe with us, we will tell thee that we have seen one riding south along the Greenway, clad in a coat as green as the way, with the leafless tree done on his breast. So nigh to him we were that we heard his cry as he sped along, as ye may hear the lapwing whining, for he said: "POINT AND EDGE, POINT AND EDGE! THE RED WATER AMIDST OF THE HILLS!" In my lifetime such a man hath, to my knowledge, been seen thrice before; and after each sight of him followed evil days and the death of men.'"

-The Well at the World's End, William Morris
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:09 am

Yeah, that part was pretty great. Laughing

I was rewatching some of these videos and stumbled across this newer LOTR vid by the same guy, specifically about why he think ROTK's ending isn't too long.  I've defended the ending of ROTK on a number of occasions, though he takes a different approach.  I'm not sure I know enough about story theory stuff to say if I agree or not, but I found it pretty interesting.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:49 am

I've never considered it to be too long. I didn't like seeing Bilbo at all because I think his makeup was fugly, but that's just me being mean I guess to the wrinkled old fellow.

There was always the unavoidable disappointment that the Scouring of the Shire would not be in the films. I wasn't online when it came out, and so I had no idea what to expect going in. As the hours passed by though it became painfully obvious that that section wouldn't be used.

I think complaints of it being too long is really just a sort of joking thing that grew out of the multiple fade-to-blacks that Jackson used. I mean it's the longest fantasy epic ever. A longer-than-normal denouement is justified!

Happy Fourth by the way! I can hear the fireworks going off outside in the distance. Our poor timberwolf is petrified. Razz

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"'But whereas we have drunk with thee, who seemest to be a man of lineage, and thou hast been blithe with us, we will tell thee that we have seen one riding south along the Greenway, clad in a coat as green as the way, with the leafless tree done on his breast. So nigh to him we were that we heard his cry as he sped along, as ye may hear the lapwing whining, for he said: "POINT AND EDGE, POINT AND EDGE! THE RED WATER AMIDST OF THE HILLS!" In my lifetime such a man hath, to my knowledge, been seen thrice before; and after each sight of him followed evil days and the death of men.'"

-The Well at the World's End, William Morris
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Post by azriel on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:07 am

I had to accept the Scouring of the Shire just as I excepted Tom Bombadildo not being in it either. Looking at that vid Im now glad they were not included. Made me think how the ending actually would have failed, ruined it all, & left a sour taste in my mouth that I couldnt be rid off. This guy is right about Plot & story. Simple ideas that have to be handled like a precious fragile ornament. I still like LOTRs no matter how I know things are in correct, wrong person at wrong place saying the wrong thing etc. For all the slagging off I do of peejers, that chubby little New Zealander has charmed me, like a unwanted hypnotism,over these 3 LOTRs films. Standing back from it all now peejers should NEVER have made The Hobbit anything like LOTRs ! He should have scrapped the melodic music score, there should be NO reminders of a story that hasnt even happened yet FFS ! Stop the wise, know it all,hints at " impending doom" whoooo-eeeee pale There should have been talk of the times NOW not the times to come. It was boring, repetitive, & that was before all the ridiculous buffoonery was added. Im hoping that one day that bloody film will come round & bite peejers fully on the arse, when he's free of his delushions, coz thats the only way peejers will spot all the flaws, etc & feel OMG !

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Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:16 pm

that critic guy was right. PJ had lost all interest in the Hobbit by the time he filmed it and was only interested in playing with his new toys. But the end result is a bloated carcass of seeping fartjuice.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:50 pm

I must say Figgy, your finely-crafted eloquence continues to delight and astonish. Laughing

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"'But whereas we have drunk with thee, who seemest to be a man of lineage, and thou hast been blithe with us, we will tell thee that we have seen one riding south along the Greenway, clad in a coat as green as the way, with the leafless tree done on his breast. So nigh to him we were that we heard his cry as he sped along, as ye may hear the lapwing whining, for he said: "POINT AND EDGE, POINT AND EDGE! THE RED WATER AMIDST OF THE HILLS!" In my lifetime such a man hath, to my knowledge, been seen thrice before; and after each sight of him followed evil days and the death of men.'"

-The Well at the World's End, William Morris
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Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:00 pm

rabbit

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Post by Radaghast on Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:58 pm

Eldorion wrote:A few other worthwhile YouTube critiques of The Hobbit.  Both are multi-part but I'm only embedding the first of each in here.  Pretty sure they've been posted on here before but I can't be arsed to go find the relevant threads.

In this video, the reason given by Philipa Boyens (or whoever) for Thorin being cast young was because an older actor wouldn't be able to handle the combat scenes? Wow, what a weak justification. Have they forgotten Ian McKellen was close to 60 when LotR was filmed and a decade older for the Hobbit movies?

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Post by azriel on Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:26 pm

And look at Arnie ! hes in his 60s & hes still doing films ! Ageism idiot she is ! she just wanted a hunk on set so she could get a change of undies !

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Post by bungobaggins on Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:31 pm

IT WASNT SEXY ENOUGH YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE CREATIVE PROCESS ITS AN ADAPTATION THINGS ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT

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Post by Radaghast on Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:32 pm

azriel wrote:And look at Arnie ! hes in his 60s & hes still doing films ! Ageism idiot she is ! she just wanted a hunk on set so she could get a change of undies !
I agree Laughing

And, heck, Christopher Lee was in his 80's when he did Star Wars.

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Post by azriel on Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:42 pm

Right on Raddy ! Very Happy Theres plenty of actors still giving fine performances even tho they arent as young as they used to be. Its not all about young, nubile, gods & goddesses anymore ! Which brings us back round to Style & substance, substance wins !

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Post by Radaghast on Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:47 pm

And, of course, as the video reviewer says, they could have used makeup to effect age. That's actually what they did do before deciding to redesign Thorin's look.

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