Doctor Who [12]

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Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:22 pm

No  I might as well. Shrugging

how come Petty hasn't drooled over it as per? scratch

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:20 pm

Take it from that you didn't enjoy it Azriel!

My own thoughts shall have to wait a little later until I can put them in writing, I've been busy last few days, work and stuff, and I really felt I needed to see it twice before commenting as I was unsure about a certain major aspect of where it went. But a second watch at least put my thoughts in shape.

But before the press round up here you go Figg, try the links on this page-

http://watchseries.lt/episode/doctor_who_s9_e12.html


Press Round-up (not as many as usual not got the time at the moment to go looking for them all)

Spoiler:
The Guardian-  "A psychedelic, head-spinning finale that piled twist upon revelation on top of rug pull...Moffat’s take on Gallifrey grows richer and more intriguing. We’d always presumed the place to be a fusty, ceremonial place, sort of a sci-fi House of Lords, watching over the universe from a considered distance. And as long as they’ve featured in the show, they’ve always been liable for corruption. But this Gallifrey is an altogether darker construction."

Radio Time 5/5 - "First off, what a strange and poetic way to begin this superb finale....it convincingly opens up a well of sorrow and, yes, several times I had a tear in my eye. ...making this, their real parting, especially effective. Clara is in charge of this situation. She has fixed things for him, reunited him with his Tardis and is saying goodbye: “You said memories become stories when we forget them. Maybe some of them become songs.” That’s beautiful. Admirable writing by Steven Moffat...Although the last act of the finale moves slowly, it is packed with emotion...I absolutely adore this closing sequence. Perhaps never before has the Doctor lost and won so much at the same time. He’s achieved what he set out to achieve billions of years ago. He’s vanquished his enemies and saved Clara. I’ve stated before that I wish they’d let someone important die – without deferral or resurrection. But, in dramatic terms, the survival of Clara works for me. For once, the Doctor has earned the power over life and death."

Den of Geek - "we also get the best look at the innards of Gallifrey that modern Doctor Who has ever shown us..."As of this moment, I'm answerable to no one" Capaldi rages later in the episode. No shit...she wipes his memory, or at least the part that remembers her. It's a twist that makes things far more emotionally impactful, I thought.

After all, it reverses the usual farewell, and makes it all the more touching that it's the Doctor struggling to put two and two together at the end, trying hard to recall her, and failing to do so. Credit, again, to director Rachel Talalay for the delicate balance she manages, and for her willingness to apply the brakes and keep things simple for big moments like these. It's a complex visual finale, this, and she never loses sight of the story she needs to tell. Furthermore, visually, it's an absolute treat....'ve adored the boldness of this series. I've adored how fearless it's been, and I've adored how Peter Capaldi has put in a shift that's given me goosebumps four or five times. ...As he stood by his TARDIS at the end of Hell Bent, looking at the dedication to Clara, with a guitar over his shoulder? That man. We'll be talking about his work in this show for years....Family drama, they call this. They're damned right. But it's family drama that treats every member of the family as someone with a brain. Hell Bent, fittingly, takes the Doctor off stage left, with barely a compromise in sight. It was creepy, moving, funny, and bristling with confidence, just as much of the series has been. What's more, there's a new sonic screwdriver and a high standard set for next time around. Doctor Who goes on, and thank goodness for that."

IGN 9.3 - “Hell Bent” is a strong close to a very strong season of Doctor Who -- possibly the best season of the modern run of the show. The episode serves as both a touching and perfect swan song for Clara while also resolving the hybrid arc in a surprising and satisfying way. I’ll miss Jenna Coleman and Clara’s adventures with the Doctor, but it looks like Twelve is ready to take things in a new direction next year. I can’t wait."

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Post by malickfan on Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:03 pm

I...liked it.

Not amazing, or rubbish, but a reasonably enjoyable finale (that was caught up in its own hype a little) that may sow the seeds for some very interesting storylines down the line, how much you will enjoy it very much depends on how you feel about the Doctor/Clara relationship.

At first I was a little dissapointed that
Spoiler:
the return of Gallifrey
was brushed over relatively quickly, but let's be honest
Spoiler:
timelord politics and lore
was never the most interesting thing about the show, RTD axed it when the show came back in 2005 with good reason though
Spoiler:
he had nicked the idea of a time war and the destruction of Gallifrey from the 8th doctor books...
and having spent a decade waiting for it, I think it's low key return and the Doctors reaction to
Spoiler:
the timelord council
made alot of sense.

Overall I'd give series 9 a 7 out of 10, it's certainly one of the most enjoyable series for me, but not one without some disappointing episodes and flaws.

Honestly...I'm a little dissapointed Moffat has signed on for series 10, I was really hoping for a new writing team and fresh perspective, hopefully now that
Spoiler:
the Gallifrey and Time War arc has largely ended
the show can move on and return to more carefee, simpler stories.

Fingers crossed the next companion isn't yet another flirty mid 20's London resident from the 21st Century...

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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:33 pm

a reasonably enjoyable finale- Malick

That would pretty sum up my general feelings on the first watch, I've upped it slightly on a second.

Regards
Spoiler:
Gallifrey I think he made the right choice here- you have to tread very lightly with Time Lords and suggest a lot more than you show or you ruin the mystique-which was the mistake classic made.
Moffat set some good stuff up- Rassilion's exile, the massive obvious disparity between the Time Lords and the general Gallifreyean populace outside the cities.
For the same reason I am glad we never saw 'inside' the matrix but rather they kept it at a distance and somewhat mythologised.
There was enough hinted at but not spoiled.

But regards the Gallifrey opening- I absolutely love it, from the soundtrack and western vibe of it, to the Doctor as the silent western hero- I was watching a reaction vid to this and when Rassilon turned up the reviewer commented brilliantly I thought "He hasn't said a single thing, but they heard every word."
Its beautifully shot too, and some of the subtle humour is brilliant, such as the Gallifreyean warship telling him to drop hi weapons and come forward, and the Doctor drops his spoon (which of course he used as a weapon to win a sword fight with Robin Hood last series) to the magnificent way he just strides out as the warship slowly backs off.
Also loved the scene where the soldiers mutiny, "There was a saying during the Time War. The first thing you notice about the Doctor of War is that he is unarmed. For many its also the last."

We also got a bit more on the Doctors childhood- he broke into the cloisters and the Wraiths spoke to him and whatever they said scared him half to death.
How did he end up living out the barn with the poor folks as a child when he was high Born Gallifreyean? Are the two events connected? (He is scared and crying in Listen, is it right after the cloister event? That would be typical of Moffat).

"RTD axed it when the show came back in 2005 with good reason though "

I'd agree with that, he had good reason, it was the right decision.
Spoiler:
I think it is time to reintroduce them- but only if they stay distant in all the important aspects.

Regards Moffat, from what he has been saying his logic for staying goes like this- the BBC have not yet found anyone to take over. Moffat won't leave the show in the lurch and will step down once the new showrunner is decided upon, presumably after next series now.

Spoiler:
Its also clear, especially in retrospect that this series has a very Moffat swansong feel to it, with his final xmas special with the return of River being his goodbye.
This does concerns me slightly for next series, I'm not sure how he tops his own swansong.

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Post by malickfan on Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:56 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:a reasonably enjoyable finale- Malick



Spoiler:
Gallifrey I think he made the right choice here- you have to tread very lightly with Time Lords and suggest a lot more than you show or you ruin the mystique-which was the mistake classic made.
Moffat set some good stuff up- Rassilion's exile, the massive obvious disparity between the Time Lords and the general Gallifreyean populace outside the cities.
For the same reason I am glad we never saw 'inside' the matrix but rather they kept it at a distance and somewhat mythologised.
There was enough hinted at but not spoiled.

But regards the Gallifrey opening- I absolutely love it, from the soundtrack and western vibe of it, to the Doctor as the silent western hero- I was watching a reaction vid to this and when Rassilon turned up the reviewer commented brilliantly I thought "He hasn't said a single thing, but they heard every word."
Its beautifully shot too, and some of the subtle humour is brilliant, such as the Gallifreyean warship telling him to drop hi weapons and come forward, and the Doctor drops his spoon (which of course he used as a weapon to win a sword fight with Robin Hood last series) to the magnificent way he just strides out as the warship slowly backs off.
Also loved the scene where the soldiers mutiny, "There was a saying during the Time War. The first thing you notice about the Doctor of War is that he is unarmed. For many its also the last."

We also got a bit more on the Doctors childhood- he broke into the cloisters and the Wraiths spoke to him and whatever they said scared him half to death.
How did he end up living out the barn with the poor folks as a child when he was high Born Gallifreyean? Are the two events connected? (He is scared and crying in Listen, is it right after the cloister event? That would be typical of Moffat).

Agree with you on all points here, I think Moffat dropped just enough lore and intrigue here to keep things interesting, and they really, really need to sign Racheal Tallay up as director again as soon as possible, the cinematography was breathtaking at points.


Spoiler:
Its also clear, especially in retrospect that this series has a very Moffat swansong feel to it, with his final xmas special with the return of River being his goodbye.
This does concerns me slightly for next series, I'm not sure how he tops his own swansong.

Moffat did plan on leaving this Christmas originally so that makes sense, I wonder if he'll do another semi-reboot akin to 2005/10 and design series 10 specifically as another jumping on point? Now that
Spoiler:
the 12th Doctor has got over his soul searching a little, and found Gallifrey again
it's almost business as usual for the Doctor, but with some very interesting possibilities left dangling.

I wonder if he'll bump into
Spoiler:
Romana or Susan
again...

Hard to believe it's lasted ten years already...

_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:06 pm

Spoiler:
bringing Clara back was bullshit.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:11 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Take it from that you didn't enjoy it Azriel!

My own thoughts shall have to wait a little later until I can put them in writing, I've been busy last few days, work and stuff, and I really felt I needed to see it twice before commenting as I was unsure about a certain major aspect of where it went. But a second watch at least put my thoughts in shape.

But before the press round up here you go Figg, try the links on this page-

http://watchseries.lt/episode/doctor_who_s9_e12.html


Press Round-up (not as many as usual not got the time at the moment to go looking for them all)

Spoiler:
The Guardian-  "A psychedelic, head-spinning finale that piled twist upon revelation on top of rug pull...Moffat’s take on Gallifrey grows richer and more intriguing. We’d always presumed the place to be a fusty, ceremonial place, sort of a sci-fi House of Lords, watching over the universe from a considered distance. And as long as they’ve featured in the show, they’ve always been liable for corruption. But this Gallifrey is an altogether darker construction."

Radio Time 5/5 - "First off, what a strange and poetic way to begin this superb finale....it convincingly opens up a well of sorrow and, yes, several times I had a tear in my eye. ...making this, their real parting, especially effective. Clara is in charge of this situation. She has fixed things for him, reunited him with his Tardis and is saying goodbye: “You said memories become stories when we forget them. Maybe some of them become songs.” That’s beautiful. Admirable writing by Steven Moffat...Although the last act of the finale moves slowly, it is packed with emotion...I absolutely adore this closing sequence. Perhaps never before has the Doctor lost and won so much at the same time. He’s achieved what he set out to achieve billions of years ago. He’s vanquished his enemies and saved Clara. I’ve stated before that I wish they’d let someone important die – without deferral or resurrection. But, in dramatic terms, the survival of Clara works for me. For once, the Doctor has earned the power over life and death."

Den of Geek - "we also get the best look at the innards of Gallifrey that modern Doctor Who has ever shown us..."As of this moment, I'm answerable to no one" Capaldi rages later in the episode. No shit...she wipes his memory, or at least the part that remembers her. It's a twist that makes things far more emotionally impactful, I thought.

After all, it reverses the usual farewell, and makes it all the more touching that it's the Doctor struggling to put two and two together at the end, trying hard to recall her, and failing to do so. Credit, again, to director Rachel Talalay for the delicate balance she manages, and for her willingness to apply the brakes and keep things simple for big moments like these. It's a complex visual finale, this, and she never loses sight of the story she needs to tell. Furthermore, visually, it's an absolute treat....'ve adored the boldness of this series. I've adored how fearless it's been, and I've adored how Peter Capaldi has put in a shift that's given me goosebumps four or five times. ...As he stood by his TARDIS at the end of Hell Bent, looking at the dedication to Clara, with a guitar over his shoulder? That man. We'll be talking about his work in this show for years....Family drama, they call this. They're damned right. But it's family drama that treats every member of the family as someone with a brain. Hell Bent, fittingly, takes the Doctor off stage left, with barely a compromise in sight. It was creepy, moving, funny, and bristling with confidence, just as much of the series has been. What's more, there's a new sonic screwdriver and a high standard set for next time around. Doctor Who goes on, and thank goodness for that."

IGN 9.3 - “Hell Bent” is a strong close to a very strong season of Doctor Who -- possibly the best season of the modern run of the show. The episode serves as both a touching and perfect swan song for Clara while also resolving the hybrid arc in a surprising and satisfying way. I’ll miss Jenna Coleman and Clara’s adventures with the Doctor, but it looks like Twelve is ready to take things in a new direction next year. I can’t wait."

hi thanks but non of those links work. No

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Post by malickfan on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:18 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:
Spoiler:
bringing Clara back was bullshit.

Spoiler:
I didn't think he'd have the guts to actually kill her off permanently, but I think she and the doctor had too many issues to work through to give her such a sudden ending...I'm on the fence about her fate, it suits Clara's arc, but on the other hand it paints Clara as a larger than life all important equal to the doctor I think I'll have to rewatch it scratch Shrugging

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:36 pm

Spoiler:
it suits Clara's arc, but on the other hand it paints Clara as a larger than life all important equal to the doctor
- Malick

Spoiler:
It does exactly that I thought, especially on second viewing. Face the Raven onwards is just one story split in three so her death is in the set up in the first third and the explanation as you would expect in the final act.
And she does indeed leave as essentially equal, she is in a stolen TARDIS on the run from the Time Lords (and they will get her, probably sooner rather than later, they could get the Doctor back or control his TARDIS or intercept him when they really had to in classic every time) she still ends up facing the Raven eventually.
Its entirely fitting for where her character arc has been going. And 'try and belike the Doctor and you end up dead' is not a good message for the little ones as 'try to be like the Doctor and there is always hope" (also the basic sentimentof the 50th).
Also liked the tie into the Missy putting the together arc- and the reasoning behind it. She was essentially trying to do the same thing with the cybermen- offering him an army see how far he would go for Clara. "You'd go to hell and back for her" That seems almost like a test from the Master in hindsight to see how far along things were getting. And this episode is 'Hell Bent.'

I actually thought, from the point of view of those who think Moffat is sexist it was an interesting ending- its the most upbeat for a companion in NUWho, probably ever if a touch bitter-sweet with the raven thing. I found that quite refreshing after NUWHo habit of making everything tragic for drama.
And it was a mirror of Donna's exit.
Now I loved Donna, and her end was one of the most tragic and poignant in Who- but it has always niggled me that the Doctor just did it- he didn't get her permission, she was begging him not to, and he dint offer the choice of dying instead - he just did it.
Here Clara throws that right back at him in some lovely dialogue-

"Nobody's ever safe. I've never asked you for that, ever. These have been the best years of my life, and they are mine. Tomorrow is promised to no one, Doctor, but I insist upon my past. I am entitled to that. It's mine."

And she is right. And the Doctor concedes it. Just as looking back on it he was wrong to never give Donna a say in it.
Clara leaves as a person his equal, if not in capabilities, but every other way. She does so on her own terms, and she does so after putting things in place and making sure the Doctor will be safe and able to go on as the Doctor.
And the final scene with the Doctor going back into his TARDIS after 4 and half billion years and it coming back to life around him as he strolls in unslinging his guitar and the 12 theme builds was also superb way to finish. And the end should at least shut up the sonic sunglass haters!

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Post by malickfan on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:38 pm

I liked the sonic sunglasses Sad

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:41 pm

Spoiler:
Clara was dead. then she wasn't. its bollox.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:43 pm

Figg you haven't actually watched it have you or you would no that is not in fact the case.

I liked the glasses too Malick- they worked for 12. I am hoping he keeps them as an occasional variation on using the sonic.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:46 pm

well if I could find a link that didn't have popups trying to sell me Viagra maybe I would watch it. Mad
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:51 pm

The Beeb have been very diligent with keeping this series offline I'm afraid.

Best I can do you is a reaction vid Mr Freakins is good for screen size, Papaken just cause I like him, nice fellow.




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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:57 pm

yes he is a nice fellow. Thumbs Up

anyway. I have some humble pie to eat........and do some back peddling....

and I bet you never thought I would ever say this....like EVER.....

but.....

it was fooking brilliant.....

see.....I always give respect where its due.. even with Moffat....

Saucy Wink


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:19 pm

Shocked I am genuinely delighted you are enjoying your Who again Figg! cheers (even if it only lasts an episode! Wink )


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Post by azriel on Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:46 pm

Ah Petty, You know me not Very Happy I enjoyed seeing Capaldi with a stern, unmovable expression, His eyes showed he meant business & dont you dare cross him. Who IS clara ? I got my own theories about this & why it is she will not die, no doubt IL be proved wrong but, I like to tickle my visual cortex now & again Very Happy Ishildr is the one that irratates me at the moment, I havnt got her sussed. Im hoping Capaldi's Dr will be back harder & stronger Of all the Dr's this, is the one to kick arse.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:01 pm

Blimey. Do we actually have a consensus on the Who thread that an episode was generally pretty good and entertaining?!! Shocked Shocked An episode with Clara in it?!! Shocked Shocked Shocked

I think I need to go and lie down and drink some buckie through a straw.

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Post by azriel on Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:07 pm

That shot you up the arse a tad didnt it Very Happy Laughing

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Doctor Who [12] - Page 16 Th_cat%20blink_zpsesmrb2cl

Doctor Who [12] - Page 16 15403410
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:03 pm


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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:44 pm

ok this is why I liked this episode...
Spoiler:
it was the first and only time I have felt that the relationship between Clara and the Doctor was real and deep, and its taken two whole seasons to show this. The acting between them was moving, for once, I got why he would do the billions of years thing. but why oh why couldn't they have been like this from the beginning.  No  srsly this is the episode I was waiting for to make me like the Clara Doctor pairing. if they had been like this from the beginning I would have thought they were my favourite Doctor and companion since Donna and 10. I thought Jenna did the best acting she has ever done and I thought Capaldi was the best he has ever been acting wise. I like him like this, finally he is the Doctor in this episode. A Doctor that I can root for. but as its only one episode I am not sure if they can keep this up. and I am dreading River Song. I thought the episode itself was underwhelming but the acting made up for the flimsy plot. I was dubious about bringing Clara back yet again, but this ending was far better than in Face the Raven where I didn't buy their relationship one bit.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:48 am

Sorry for the time-warping that are my posts. 
I just finished both The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived and The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion.


The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived
I was excited at the beginning of the first episode. The Monty Python reference was amusing enough, and Norsemen and their gods are an inspiring place from which to draw story inspiration. Unfortunately, things all went to bollocks except for a few entertaining bits.
The villain was pretty pathetic, spending all that effort to harvest human testosterone, which can be synthesized fairly easily even with present-day technologies and should be a cake-walk for an alien.
I did like seeing the Doctor interact with the villagers. He had a couple funny lines like when he asks about what the blacksmith is doing with the baby. 
But most of it didn't really need to happen to advance the story. It's not like there was that much character development. 
And then the eels happened!
I mean, I know it's Doctor Who, but putting frickin' electric eels in middle-ages SCANDINAVIA is like putting a penguin in the Serengeti! 
That was quite bothersome. 

I didn't like Maisie Williams character nearly as much as the other villagers, and she had the most screentime! Especially as I am a woodcarver myself I found the idea of her gouging out those Norse wood sculptures with her rather puny forearm muscles rather ridiculous. But that's a minor point I suppose.

I don't really like when Moffat and someone else co-writes an episode, because I'm tempted to look out for things that all of you variously identify as "Moffatish" and this makes me more critical of the writing styles.
But there was some good dialogue in there! I am a sucker for puns, and the hanging scene was fun. The lion-man creature was interestingly D&Dish I thought. Razz

Maisie William's character's sudden caring for humanity came out of nowhere, and would have been far more believable, I feel, if it had occurred only after she was 150 or so. Old enough to remember the first losses of her loved ones, but not so darn ancient that humans have become like smoke in the breeze. Then I would have believed that she had suddenly been reminded of why she cared.



The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion
Not a favourite of mine!
As others have mentioned the politics of it was a little offputting, but mainly I was just confused by it. 
I should have watched it again if I wanted to understand the details of what was going on, but as it stood I was confused as to how the heck the Zygons could adopt the forms of humans without granting that human an obvious doppleganger. I mean, I know Osgood went on for a bit about how the New Zygons had different abilities than the others, but I thought the whole idea was that a Zygon needed to be near the source of its mimicry in order to maintain the illusion. I mean, in the Loch Ness episode of the Fourth Doctor, the Zygons could only impersonate those that they had captured.
I just wasn't feeling it. And call me unconsciously racist or whatever else the episode was trying to speak out against, but I don't like the idea of Zygons secretly living spread out through all the countries of the earth.

Oh, and the soldiers were beyond useless! They never bombed anyone, they never shot anyone, they never captured anyone, and they allowed themselves to be easily killed en masse. They really carried on the grand Whovian tradition of soldiers being easily overpowered and destroyed. Of course, in an episode with serious political overtones, I was more annoyed than usual with their failing IQ scores.  :facepalm:
More and more of the intended political parallels are occurring to me and making me crabbit, so I shall move on to something positive instead.
I did enjoy the Doctor's speech! Capaldi was masterful in his delivery, and it really helped to end the episode on a good note.   Thumbs Up

OH WAIT, except actually the bloody episode ended with Osgood putting on mysterious airs.
Bloody heck, but I hate shapechangers. Mad  I remember the one guy from my D&D group played a shapechanger. He was always putting on airs of injured innocence if any of us complained about the fact that he was playing what was officially an evil monster.

P.S.
On one point only do I humbly request some clarification: 
How is it that the Zygons were able to live on earth in disguise? And why did that not lead to a sort of cloning of 20 million random people?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:15 pm

I know it's Doctor Who, but putting frickin' electric eels in middle-ages SCANDINAVIA is like putting a penguin in the Serengeti! - Forest

Someone over on Gallifrey Base did some research on this- and whilst there is no direct account of electric eels apparently the Vikings brought all sorts of animals, birds and fish back from their journeys and kept them as prestige.
Accordingly if they had brought eels back they would have to keep them in a special shed to monitor temperature and have them in separate tanks of there own- which is the case in the episode- so I can give it a 'stretch' of history on this one.

'I'm tempted to look out for things that all of you variously identify as "Moffatish" and this makes me more critical of the writing styles.'

Surely that fault is yours, not the episodes?

'They really carried on the grand Whovian tradition of soldiers being easily overpowered and destroyed'

UNIT do have a history of this- and they were UNIT soldiers only. But rather I think the premise set up during the drone attack sequence was the idea that even a trained soldier, when confronted with the likeness of their dearest love ones juts cant bring themselves to do it- whether you think this would be the case or not is up to opinion of course as no-one has ever faced such a situation for real so we dont know- but the episode does set up that premise early on. The soldiers at the church merely confirm it.
So within its own story rules it does stay true to them.
Also had they opened fire and gunned them down there is noway it would have gotten broadcast as family tv.

'Capaldi was masterful in his delivery'

Yup he sure is. And the really amazing thing is as far as performances go, thats just his warm up for whats to come.



'How is it that the Zygons were able to live on earth in disguise? And why did that not lead to a sort of cloning of 20 million random people?'

According to the episode this is the important stuff- in the past a Zygon had to capture and kjeep the person they were going to copy and use them as a live feed to refresh the image and to get all their personal history and details out of them.
However by this time Zygons no longer need to do this- they can in fact pluck an image from a living mind- such as the family members of the soldiers- but they don't get all the details or information- hence the 'mother' can't remember things about his childhood.
However if they still need information from someone they still have to keep them alive- see Clara.

The treaty struck between UNIT and the Zygons saw the Zygons taking images form the UK population- these copies were then presumably given false names and papers and were placed in a variety of countries around the globe. So alot of Brits have a doppelgänger out there somewhere.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:34 pm

Spoilers for series 9-


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:42 pm

Here's how the voting pans out on Gallifrey Base for this series, using a first past the post system- the number that got the highest votes wins. All scores out of 10.


The Magicians Nephew- 9
Total votes cast 3164

The Witches Familar- 10
Total votes cast 2635

Under the Lake- 8
Total votes cast- 2369

Before the Flood- 8
Total votes cast- 2169

The Girl Who Died- 8
Total votes cast 2261

The Woman Who Lived- 8
Total votes cast 2142

The Zygon Invasion -8
Total votes cast- 2108

The Zygon Inversion- 10
Total votes cast- 2271

Sleep No More - 8 (by 1 vote!)
Total votes cast 2442

Face the Raven - 9
Total votes cast 2506

Heaven Sent - 10 (with a whopping 51% of the vote)
Total votes cast -3020

Hell Bent - 10
Total votes cast 2635


That's a hell of a run, not sure I've seen as solidly a rated series on there. There is usually at least one clear stinker in the mix that gets a 6 or 7 or very occasionally a sub 5.
4 10's 2 9's and nothing lower than an 8 is quite remarkable! Not to mention its one of the most critically acclaimed series I can remember.

Obviously, Moffat must go!......

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