UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by azriel on Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:14 pm



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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by malickfan on Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:03 am

in out, in out
they are fucking all about
they call a referendum and it lands us in the shit
thanks alot cameron, you tory cowardly git

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:09 pm

Laughing

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:50 am

{{Well its the big day for Brexit. Parliament votes on May's plan today!
She has delayed it, she has tried haggling even with Labour unions for backing, and she has begged Europe for changes and got not much more than a firming up of words, nothing legally altered or binding.
So will she lose as predicted? Will her own backbenchers stab her in the back? Or will Parliament blink at the prospect of No Deal Brexit or of no Brexit at all? Find out soon. Shocked }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Eldy on Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:55 am



{{{Good luck, UK! pale}}}
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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:52 am

shits going down

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:18 pm

{{Expect the proper main voting to start about 8pm GMT- officially its 7pm but there are 3 or 4 amendments the Speaker has allocated first giving 15 minutes on each. Of those the two with the biggest potential to derail things probably will lose- a Labour amendment to scrap the Breit deal altogether, so no vote at all, and a Tory backbencher vote to give the UK the power to end the backstop should it come into force (this will get backing from a lot of Tories, the DUP certainly, and possibly a few Labour MP's in Brexit constituencies, but I dont think it will get enough to pass either, but its got a better chance than the Labour amendment does.

So by about 9pm at latest hopefully we will have a result one way or another. }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:43 pm

my biggest problem with everything at the moment is fuqiing Corbyn. he seems to want to go back to Brussels for a shiny new fluffy Labour brexit. its laughable, but its dangerous because that means he hasn't listened to anyone from the remainer side, like Keir Starmer. Corbyn might be worse than May.

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:29 pm

{{{ Agreed on Corbyn Figg- his plan is clear enough- whip his party to vote against any government deal, when she loses the vote demand she call a general election, if she doesn't force a vote of no confidence in the government and get a general election that way.
Which is fine if all he wants to do is grab power- but there is no indication what he would do once he got power- Labour have no more a solution to the NI question than the Tories do. His current solution is just to stay in the customs union but that effectively makes it not Brexit as voted for as it would tie the UK's hands when it comes to making our own trade deals and when it came to UK courts being supreme over the European Court and independent trade deals and sovereignty are the two main things the Brexit side want. So the division is no less in Labour than in the Tories- I dont see what good forcing a general election does here or what difference it will actually make to the Brexit debate. It will though delay everything even longer dragging out the process, the costs, spooking the markets and continuing the lack of any sort of proper governance at Westminster whilst they all stay stuck in the Brexit bun fight.  Mad  }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:05 pm

{{{ Things might move faster than expected- Labour and the SNP have decided not to put forward any amendments after-all so the vote should come sooner. }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:29 pm

{{Only 1 amendment in the end- from a Tory got heavily defeated. So here we go- now the main vote- result in 10-15 mins! }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:43 pm

{{And the results in!

May got hammered, biggest government defeat in modern history- 432 to 202what happens now is anyone's guess!
Expect May to make some sort of speech soon- but will it be defiance or resignation, or to call a general election?- who knows}}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:50 pm

{{Corbyn, as predicted, just announced he'd placed a motion of no confidence in the govenrment- vote tomorrow.
May so far has remained defiant in the chamber.
SNP announce they will be back Labour no confidence vote. }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Lancebloke on Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:05 pm

It's all a big fucking joke... surely! Someone is gonna come on the T.V. and let us know it was the most elaborate prank ever right.... right?

I don't want a second vote but if this bunch of fucking idiots can't sort it out then it should go back to the people with simple rules that the highest proportion carries for everyone (assuming 3 or more options meaning very likely a split country, just in more directions).
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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:52 pm

lets face it Corbyn will lose the no confidence vote, and a general election is pointless because he wouldn't win it, even though this is the worst Tory government in history, Corbyn would still lose. that's how bad it is. if Starmer took us to a general election we would win, but that's not going to happen. what a clusterfuck.

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:53 pm

{{I honestly dont know what Corbyns game plan is- beyond get a general election- the no convenience debate is underway and as May just said- a general election will only cause more division, take up weeks of time where nothing else happens, and has no guarantee any party will come out of it with a workable majority.
But mainly it would change nothing as we dont know where Labour stand- as one Tory in the chamber just asked Corbyn, will he campaign to leave as he does in the NE of England, or remain, as he does when he is talking in London? He can't keep sitting on the fence sniping and trying to appeal to both sides, he needs an actual position and Labour dont have one. }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:49 pm

you know what I think, the three Labour party leaders, Corbyn, McDonald and Thornbury, are totally out of their depth, and are stubbornly refusing to take advice from the younger more flexible MPs. Those three are hidebound and set in stone and also weirdly opaque, I still don't know what they stand for or represent. Corbyn got quite hysterical yesterday night, it wasn't a pretty sight. I thought I would feel more happy at the gvt defeat, but I have a horrible suspicion it is playing right into the ERG hands and they are going to get a hard brexit afterall.

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:04 pm

{{Labour need a clear position- they need to say exactly how they envisage Brexit if Labour are in charge of it- do we stay in the customs union or not? How closely aligned to the EU Court do we remain? If they dont plan on the customs union then what's their solution to the NI border question? Fisheries? Farming? What about repatriating powers from EU to devolved administrations? Ive no idea what their position on any of this is. And that isn't good enough with only a few weeks to go till Brexit Day. If Labour get a general election I dont even know what they would be standing on other not we arent May. And I, unusually for most folk, watch politics pretty closely and I dont have a clue what they stand for- what hope has the average member of the public got?

Also see Reece-Mogg and co spent last night having a champagne quaffing party- countries fucked and the toffs are lording up celebrating with expensive food and wine- nothing changes in this country, not even after centuries Mad }}


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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:21 pm

it will never change while the plebs are tugging their forelocks to the likes of Mogg.

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:06 pm

{{ Votes underway result shortly.
And looks like Sturgeon is going for indyref2!
And Watson summing up for Labour just made a good pitch for leader of Labour with a speech that hit May harder than anything Corbyn has done since he became Leader- and Gove just showed for the Tories how good he is at the despatch box. Its like X-factor only they are auditioning for leader of their parties! }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:35 pm

{{Well no surprise there- motion defeated. May and the tories stay and Corbyn cant call another one for a year.
Utterly, predictably, pointless. }}

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:03 pm

yep

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by David H on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:05 pm

So any guesses what comes next? I've been trying to follow along, but I'm afraid I lost the thread of logic to this weeks ago.... Suspect confused

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:55 pm

there is no logic, that's the problem. scratch Shrugging

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Re: UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:07 am

{{The basic problem is we have two opposing forces clashing. By which I mean we have on the one hand the choice of the people in the referendum to leave. But Parliament taken as a whole voted to remain and support remain. So we have a chamber which doesn't believe in leave trying to implement leave when there is no version of Leave it will be satisfied with or will pass.
On the other side we have the actual basic job of an MP- which is not as people think primarily to represent their constituents, or even to back their party, but rather to act in the best interest of the nation. And most of them believe Brexit will not be in the best interests of the nation.
So the primary duty of an MP is in direct conflict with the instructions given to them in the referendum by the people.
This is why in the UK system referendums are only advisory not binding on the government- but its one thing the law saying that and another thing politically for Westminster to actually turn to the people and say 'you got that wrong we aren't doing it'.

So what happens next is hard to see- May can try to renegotiate with Europe come back again for another vote. We crash out with a No Deal and go to WTO rules, she might delay Article 50 delaying the date of leaving, call a second referendum, have ageneral election (not likely after yesterday) or she could say we are not leaving as its not in the best interest of the country (extremely unlikely but technically an option). One of those is going to happen soon however as the official Leave date approaches.

But some things are exhausted- any plan with a backstop we cant quit out of won't work, that's clear. We won't have a change of PM from a leadership contests as they can't have another for a year, and we won't have a general election as Corbyn blew that yesterday, so its off the table for a year too. So we are stuck with things as they are with the same faces in the same roles saying the same things Mad }}

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