The Hobbit Character Elimination Game

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:48 am

{{{I thought the bird that Thorin sends to Dain and that turns up on the battlements right before Dain turns up doing his best Billy Connolly impression was meant to be Roac, the thrush was, well the thrush, mute but sort of present I suppose, and the Lord of the Eagles I assumed was the one carrying Gandalf}}

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Post by Eldorion on Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:27 pm

{{{That had occurred to me, but the raven that goes flapping out looked a little speedy and sprightly for 153 years old IMO. Shrugging }}}
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Post by malickfan on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:03 pm

Eldorion wrote:

{{{Y'know guys, I specifically include book characters who got left out of the movies in this, and left out movie-only ones. Don't let PJ cloud your minds too much! Razz}}}

What about characters who are in both but differ enormously in each? As I've made clear before I like Thorin in the book, but have no great love for his film counterpart...

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I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Eldorion on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:05 pm

Use your best judgement I guess? Or, since most people seem be basing their decisions on the movie versions, just go along with that I suppose. Razz
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Post by malickfan on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:29 pm

Eldorion wrote:Use your best judgement I guess? Or, since most people seem be basing their decisions on the movie versions, just go along with that I suppose. Razz

In that case

Thorin-100. Trollface

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I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by halfwise on Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 am

The funny thing is, and I'm girding myself up to say this: I actually liked the movie Thorin better than book-Thorin. Book Thorin started as a bit of a fuddy-duddy and ended up as an arrogant git; the only reason we like him is his final good-bye to Bilbo.

Sofa

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Post by Eldorion on Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:31 am

Well yeah, book!Thorin is a pretty unlikeable character. That's how he's written to be. He doesn't so much as descend into madness towards the end as he simply succumbs to his pre-existing arrogance and self-centeredness. But he does get a redemption at the end (literally at the cost of his life), and who doesn't like a good redemption story?

Movie!Thorin is, IMO, presented as a blandly heroic leader figure while rarely do anything to justify the hero worship that most of the company direct towards him. His main claime to fame in the movie-verse is that he failed to kill Azog at the Battle of Azanulbizar (which everyone seems to know, but they just glance sidelong at each other rather than challenging him on this). He did have some nice scenes in DOS though which were probably the highlight of the movie character for me.
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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:16 pm

Book Thorin is 1000 times more interesting than the cliché Armitage version. Mad I couldn't be more bored of film Thorin.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:21 pm

Women! Rolling Eyes You go through all this trouble to be a complexly brooding, sexy dwarf, and this is the thanks you get.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:27 pm

Rolling Eyes he is just Aragorn lite.

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Post by Eldorion on Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:46 pm

Aragorn's brood game too stronk. Thorin just can't compete.

EDIT: typical Forumshire that it's the spammy forum game thread that results in our longest Hobbit discussion in a while. Laughing
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Post by bungobaggins on Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:55 pm

Lord of the Eagles 8 (+1)
Great Goblin 1 (-1)

GG's face when

The Hobbit Character Elimination Game - Page 2 Tumblr_mj4wvjGmnl1rgg0hbo1_250

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:14 pm

I like it! Although usually in these games the negative votes are worth more points, and the positive only one. This speeds up eliminations and makes infinite ties impossible.

Here is an updated list of comprehensive votes. I added in my own in green and red. For future clarity, please simply Copy>Paste the list with your votes made. This will allow every poster to see what state the list is in.

+1 to Smaug the Magnificient! 
-1 to Thorin Poopy-pants

Contestants:  cheers
Balin  9
Bard  5
Bolg  5
Bombur 6
Bilbo  5
Dain  5
Elrond  5
Fili  3
Gandalf  5
Gollum  6
The Great Goblin  1
Kili  4
The Lord of the Eagles  8
The Master of Lake-town  4
Roac  9
Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities!  6
Thorin  4
Thranduil 5
Thrush  5


Eliminated:  :drum:
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Post by halfwise on Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:25 pm

Forest is back! cheers

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Post by bungobaggins on Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:41 pm


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Post by Eldorion on Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:14 am

Might be a good idea to use the whole list each time, Forest. I'll give it a go.

+1 to Roac, son of Carc 
-1 to Fili the sexy dwarf

Contestants:  cheers
Balin  9
Bard  5
Bolg  5
Bombur 6
Bilbo  5
Dain  5
Elrond  5
Fili  2
Gandalf  5
Gollum  6
The Great Goblin  1
Kili  4
The Lord of the Eagles  8
The Master of Lake-town  4
Roac  10
Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities!  6
Thorin  4
Thranduil 5
Thrush  5


Eliminated:  :drum:
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Post by malickfan on Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:40 pm

Eldorion wrote:

Movie!Thorin is, IMO, presented as a blandly heroic leader figure while rarely do anything to justify the hero worship that most of the company direct towards him.

Nod

Armitage is clearly a great actor, but for me personally Jackson and co tried so hard to make Thorin oh so tragic and likeable it only ended up annoying me and being obvious what they were trying to do-reworking a flawed, aged and regal king in exile into a tragic warrior in his prime, whilst Thorin in the book is self centered, arrogant and tactically clueless most of the time and rarely acts like the hero, personally I found him a much more forceful, morally grey and intriguing protagonist both Thorin and Bilbo really have to earn the audiences trust and their friendship during the course of the story in the films they felt far too chummy almost immediately for me.

In the appendices to LOTR (or it might have been Quest For Erebor) Tolkien writes (paraphrased) that the 'embers of vengeance in his heart' were growing dull', he's quite old for a Dwarf and the last in a long line that mostly met tragic fates so I think alot of his bluster and arrogance comes from the weight of his age and failure weighing down on him.

I could be a Trollface and also argue that Aragorn in the films is a more interesting and likeable protagonist than the Aragorn in the books for similar reasons-in the films he's the self doubting action hero reluctantly facing up to his destiny and awkwardly dealing with his relationship with Arwen, in the book he's more or less fully formed and eager to reclaim his Throne...

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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by malickfan on Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:41 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:Book Thorin is 1000 times more interesting than the cliché Armitage version. Mad  I couldn't be more bored of film Thorin.

Thumbs Up

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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Eldorion on Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:04 pm

malickfan wrote:I could be a Trollface and also argue that Aragorn in the films is a more interesting and likeable protagonist than the Aragorn in the books for similar reasons-in the films he's the self doubting action hero reluctantly facing up to his destiny and awkwardly dealing with his relationship with Arwen, in the book he's more or less fully formed and eager to reclaim his Throne...

You could, but it's kind of a weird criticism to make since book!Aragorn isn't a protagonist in the conventional novelistic sense in the first place... Moon
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Post by malickfan on Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:39 pm

Eldorion wrote:
malickfan wrote:I could be a Trollface and also argue that Aragorn in the films is a more interesting and likeable protagonist than the Aragorn in the books for similar reasons-in the films he's the self doubting action hero reluctantly facing up to his destiny and awkwardly dealing with his relationship with Arwen, in the book he's more or less fully formed and eager to reclaim his Throne...

You could, but it's kind of a weird criticism to make since book!Aragorn isn't a protagonist in the conventional novelistic sense in the first place... Moon

Touche, you got me there Laughing

LOTR isn't a conventional novel anyway...

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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Eldorion on Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:12 pm

It definitely isn't, although I think it still fits into the definition, just near the fringes.

Sometimes I think the single biggest change in the movies was turning Aragorn into a typical protagonist. Not so much in terms of giving him more of the narrative spotlight, although they did that too, but in terms of telling so much of the story through his point-of-view (as opposed to none of it), and having his choices be the ones that drive the story forward at many points, even moreso than Frodo's choices do (especially since Frodo is made so passive by the movies).
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Post by halfwise on Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:31 pm

There's only 3 times that Aragorn seems fully human in the books: when he doubts himself at Cair Andros; when he smokes on the ruins of Isengard; and when he tells Merry in the Houses of the Healing that he'll just have to deal with losing his backpack. It would have taken an awful lot of self-confidence on the part of the-movie makers to keep him unfathomable between those brief glimpses through the chinks of his armour. I still feel Daniel-Day Lewis could have pulled off book Aragorn, but it would have faltered in other actor's hands.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:51 pm

{{{{I would add telling his tale of Luthien at Weathertop to that last, remembering pledging his love for Arwen when they enter Lothlorien, the pain with which he rejects Eowyn before the Paths of the Dead and when the mood of battle that is on him when he meets Eomer on the field, there's probably more, but I suppose my point is that there are more 'human' motivations and elements in Aragorn than Tolkien chooses to draw huge attention to, they are there, they are just emphasised the way a modern writer would- its not a matter of having to alter the character, its a matter of finding ways to draw greater attention to those aspects of him, to bring them more to the fore and to the audiences attention}}

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Post by Eldorion on Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:39 pm

We get glimpses of Aragorn's emotional life, albeit brief ones, but because the story is told from the Hobbits' perspective it's not until we get into the Appendices (which draw from primarily non-Hobbit sources of lore) that we really get a sense of what's going on. In addition to the ones already mentioned, I always thought the passage below was very telling, both for indicating that Aragorn was not an utterly assured automaton, and for highlighting the distance between him and our POV characters:

FOTR, II, The Ring Goes South wrote:Their farewells had been said in the great hall by the fire, and they were only waiting now for Gandalf, who had not yet come out of the house. A gleam of firelight came from the open doors, and soft lights were glowing in many windows. Bilbo huddled in a cloak stood silent on the doorstep beside Frodo. Aragorn sat with his head bowed to his knees; only Elrond knew fully what this hour meant to him. The others could be seen as grey shapes in the darkness.
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Post by halfwise on Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:29 am

The neat thing about Aragorn is that you never understand him until the second reading.

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