Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:52 am

{{ Well nothing would surprise me, and they could I suppose tell Gandalf's story from before he became Gandalf and came to ME, when he was Olorin, if they have access to UT then they have the very broad strokes of how he and Saruman got sent- Eru know how'd you'd portray that visually given they are spirits with no permanent or defined forms but that might not stop them- and assuming it is 5 series long and that to cover the history it moves forward in time every series, or generations perhaps, then by series 5 might be getting near wizard arrival time. }}

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Post by Eldy on Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:36 am

I'm pretty sure none of the variants of the Istari origin story have Gandalf showing up anywhere as Gandalf until well into the Third Age, but that doesn't entirely rule him out, if the showrunners want to throw in an easter egg. The Valaquenta states that in the First Age, Gandalf (then known as Olórin) sometimes took the form of an Elf to "walk among them [Elves]" and put "fair visions [and] promptings of wisdom ... into their hearts". He also did this in unseen (and possibly incorporeal) form. I think the implication here is that Gandalf was serving as moral support to the Elves of Beleriand, which would have been well within his abilities as a Maia.

It would not be unreasonable for the showrunners to imagine Olórin continuing to visit Middle-earth, or even Númenor, in similar fashion during the Second Age. Of course, it would be harder to justify casting an Ian McKellen lookalike as elf!Olórin, but they could choose to have their version of Olórin voluntarily assume a human form for the purpose of visiting mortal lands, well before his embodiment as an Istar. This would obviously be an invention but it would not contradict anything we know about how Maiar functioned. There's no in-universe reason a hypothetical pre-Istar human form of Olórin's would necessarily look the same as his later Istar form, but there wouldn't be much point writing the character into the series if no one can recognize him.

This is all speculative, though, and I'm not aware of any reason to think Amazon will go this route.


Last edited by Eldy on Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Forest Shepherd on Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:42 am

Interesting!

Actually I think I might enjoy a young-looking Gandalf, for the novelty of it. Perhaps a little less crabbit and a little less wise than his old-man form.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:54 am

there wouldn't be much point writing the character into the series if no one can recognize him.- Elrond

{{I think that's the biggest reason not to have it referenced. If the only point to shoehorning Gandalf in there is to give the audience someone they recognise and know then there is little point if the version you are giving them is someone they don't recognise or know. And plot wise he doesn't do anything of dramatic note which directly effects events- and if you shove Gandalf in he has to have something to do.

'Perhaps a little less crabbit '- Forest

Shocked  Mad  You can't take the crabbit out of Gandalf- its what makes him Gandalf! Its central to his personality! Good things only happen in LotR's thanks to crabbit! (that may be a Scottish reading of the work admittedly, but still true!). }}

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Post by chris63 on Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:13 pm


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Post by halfwise on Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:23 pm

"...Amazon's Lord of the Rings series." Banghead

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Post by RA on Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:07 am

halfwise wrote:"...Amazon's Lord of the Rings series."  Banghead
Jeff Bezos is a genius. Did you know he invented Middle Earth? He expanded upon the lore that Peter Jackson set up in the White Council scenes of the Hobbit
No No No

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Post by Eldy on Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:17 am

People have been using "Lord of the Rings" as a synecdoche for the Middle-earth corpus as a whole for a long time. I wouldn't expect them to start changing now, nor (IMO) is there a particularly compelling reason why they should.
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Post by halfwise on Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:03 pm

Other than it's a grievous misnomer? The should use "middle-earth" or "Tolkien" instead. I guess from Amazon's perspective it only annoys a small segment of the population and the known name brand is more important. But those who purport to be Tolkien savants making videos about it should do better.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:05 pm

{{{ I have a bad feeling that the misnaming of the series will seem a minor crabbit complaint by time they are done! Mad }}}

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Post by Eldy on Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:40 pm

halfwise wrote:Other than it's a grievous misnomer?  The should use "middle-earth" or "Tolkien" instead.  I guess from Amazon's perspective it only annoys a small segment of the population and the known name brand is more important.  But those who purport to be Tolkien savants making videos about it should do better.

I'm not sure I'd agree it's a misnomer even if I was a linguistic prescriptivist, because referring to a whole by one of its parts (synecdoche) is a long-established linguistic and literary technique. "Amazon's Middle-earth series" would be more descriptive, but since the still untitled series is being widely referred to as "LOTR"--I think for reasons you touch on, in terms of Amazon's motivation--I don't really feel it's worth castigating people for using the term. If this was a First Age adaptation I might bristle a bit at "LOTR" being used, but it seems likely that this project will be most closely tied to The Lord of the Rings out of Tolkien's three main works, so Hobbit or Silmarillion erasure is not a concern.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{{ I have a bad feeling that the misnaming of the series will seem a minor crabbit complaint by time they are done! Mad  }}}

True. Pokey Tongue I do hope Amazon announces a proper title for the series sooner rather than later, even if "Lord of the Rings" is included in it.
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Post by halfwise on Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:47 pm

Are you castigating me for castigating someone? Suspect I suppose it will be closely tied to ring-lore so keeping it closely related to LotR isn't too egregious. But I get annoyed when people seem to suggest that LotR is all there is to Tolkien.

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Post by Orwell on Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:31 pm

All this castigating is alarming. As I am a Moderator here, and take my duties as seriously and reverentially and neglectfully as I do everything else here - except now and then - beware! I might need to castigate you hobbits! Suspect

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Post by halfwise on Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:45 pm

You're back!  cheers  We're ready for our close-up, mr Orwell.   Moon

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:28 am

I'd like to officially submit my request to castigate Orwell for castigating the castigator who castigated Halfwise for castigating.

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Post by halfwise on Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:13 am

Suspect

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:56 pm

Shocked

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:31 am

Nod

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Post by azriel on Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:46 pm

Does that include some sort of pain ? It sounds painful.

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:36 pm

No. Mad

Grr... never mind, I officially withdraw my submission!

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Post by halfwise on Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:52 pm

Just realized - the first two cast members are male and female of the same age. Most likely a romantic couple. Given the age, I suspect they are doing Aldarion and Erendis: the Mariner's Wife.

If so I can't say I think it's a good choice. It's not as clearly connected to the overarching story as Celebrimbor or Ar-Pharazon would be. And it's a bleak storyline. So I hope I'm wrong. But whatever the hell else COULD it be with such young actors?

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Post by Eldy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:31 am

https://www.facebook.com/heroesandvillainsnz/photos/a.522842777916215/1160152387518581/

Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety - Page 27 EBF473m

Character faces, males and females (all ethnicities)
Weathered, earthy looks
Long hair/beards/biker types
Lean and beautiful looks with fine features
Tall people 6 ft +
Small people under 5 ft
Dancers
Musicians

Sounds like they are looking for extras to be both Elves and Dwarves (as well, presumably, as humans).

Spoiler:
Really hoping we can avoid being one of the forums where people complain about the "all ethnicities" part.
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Post by Forest Shepherd on Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:07 am

Well this is fun, seeing the nitty gritty work begun.

Spoiler:
Well I wasn't going to until you said something! Mad

Not really, but I will say that I like hearing what everyone has to say, even if it goes against what I think. Well, I do avoid the BBS threads most of the time, but I mean about Tolkien-related stuff like this new show. I don't like when forums say that some ideas or topics are not allowed.
Edit: I, of course, understand why you don't want the conversation to go that way Eldy. But I wouldn't worry about it.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:39 am

{{ Well you know me Eldy, not afraid to drunkly charge into an ethical dilemna when I see one!

"Ethnic diversity" is fine if they are portraying multiple ME ethnic groups- Harad and all. And how much would I object to dark skinned or Asian or Arabic Elves, Hobbits and Dwarves, it'd be odd and might well take me out of the world building aspect as I'd be immediatly filled with a lot of questions about races, mixing and movement of peoples in ME and how it would fit Tolkien's histories of such things. People aren't dark or light skinned because nature thought the world just needed a bit more variety and colour, its a response to environment. And if people feel off in their environment, like they don't fit it something subconciously is off in the world building immediatly.

But as a general principle, if the creative folks, writers, directors etc are left to freely cast who they think is best to portray what they want to then thats generally a good thing.

If on the otherhand they are casting diversly solely because the production company handed them a check list and said 'make sure youve one of each by the end of the day,' then no. I am opposed to it. }}

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Post by halfwise on Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:46 pm

Absolutely nothing new here, except the statement that the timeline of starting within 2 years and having a 5 year series was actually part of the contract with the Tolkien estate.  Interesting.  I suppose the estate wanted to limit it so they could sell rights again.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a13529805/lord-of-the-rings-series-amazon-details/


Edit: if I were the showrunners and I knew I had to be filming something of this scale within 2 years, I would probably throw up my hands and call NewLine to get rights to the design work. There's hints that is what has happened, and in retrospect I can't blame them. Though not much of LotR sets and designs would apply directly to the second age, it would be a big load off the mind to know you can recycle similar design ideas without worrying about a lawsuit.

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