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Post by Gandalf's Beard on Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:28 pm

Verily, the Hobbit films are works of sheer brilliance I tell you! Cool

And the Harry Potter films vary a bit, but by and large they range from moderately above average to great.

Whatever sayeth you, I sayeth the opposite! Very Happy

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Post by halfwise on Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:31 pm

This debate deserves Petty, but he doesn't check the Harry Potter thread.

It's hard to separate the damage the films do to the original story from their stand-alone value as films. I thought the HP films did a good job of capturing the spirit of the original, where with the Hobbit films you have to jot down notes of general plot elements on paper before you can see the similarities.

But putting source material aside....err....I'll have to come back after a couple hours of deep meditation.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:45 pm

{{ Mad I'm here a page ago! How dare you doubt the crabbit ability to sniff out GB's liberal love of all things PJ from a mile away? Even drunk drunken  In fact, especially drunk! drunken drunken I may not frequent this corner of Forumshire much, but I can smell his liberal PJ loving words, they smell suspiciously similar to pipe-weed Suspect 

And as its obviously inconceivable that TH films could be argued for in any sensible fashion, even by GB himself, I have to this point assumed it to be more in jest, I hope Mad }}

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Post by halfwise on Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:50 pm

No, I think he's serious. pale

I think if you were thoroughly sauced and forgot any connection may exist to the actual Hobbit, you may be able to enjoy the films the way you enjoy anything where things 'splode and you are in proper delerium to appreciate them going boom.

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Post by Gandalf's Beard on Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:36 pm

Lol Laughing

The Hobbit movies have pretty much everything that is in the original book.

So it's got a lot of extra stuff like the White Council, and Radagast, and Gandalf going to Dol Guldur, and the fight with the Necromancer, and Azog, and Tauriel, etc... So what? No, seriously? So what?

If the movies had left out a whole load of stuff, you might have something legit to complain about. Razz

Methinks you could use a little pipeweed to chill out!  Very Happy  


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There now, doesn't that feel better? 👼

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Post by halfwise on Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:20 pm

The extra stuff would be great if it wasn't all perversions of what it should be.

Was the famous, epic White Council really just 4 people sitting around insulting each other in slow motion?

Would the real Radagast really have a sled pulled by bunny rabbits?

Would a beautiful elf really fall in love with a third-string dwarf?

Azog packed all the bad-guy tropes smashed together for no other reason than somebody seemed to think a perilous journey wasn't challenge enough. Here, let's make the most obvious bad guy ever seen. Not gauche at all.

Did the sandworms bust through from the thin wall separating middle earth from the Dune universe?

Yes, the Boar added SO MUCH to the dignity of Dain.

Too tired to continue...

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:55 pm

The Hobbit movies left out a lot. Mad

Magic, charm, enchantment, and coloured hoods with silver tassels for a start.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:00 am

{{There is also screwing up Bilbo's character arc from the word go, screwing up Thorins character, backstory, personality and arc throughout, the appalling cameo from Legolas that all but ruins the entire narrative by turning it into a superman/cartoon film. Its horribly paced, edited and directed, PJ's worst work behind a camera probably ever. It has dialogue that is not only utterly inappropriate in a Tolkien adaptation , its the audible equivalent of being repeatedly kicked in the balls, only slightly more painful. Tonally it doesn't know what sort of film it wants to be moment to moment and veers all over the shop with no pattern or consistency. It doesn't know what character it wants to focus on or when and so doesn't do any of them any justice. The plotting is diabolical with entire sequences seemingly invented at the last minute to account for the consist shifts in production. Its a god awful mess of a film on every conceivable level.
And those are the films best points!  Mad Mad Mad }}

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Post by azriel on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:24 am

Beorn, for me, looked like a "Street Fighter" game reject. If that was meant to be half bear than Im the Queen of England. No natural suspense & tummy tingles that you would get in real life IF your creeping about, trying to escape, as Bilbo & the Dwarves ( them things are Dwarves ?? ) were doing in the "Barrels" sequence. Hang me I thought I was playing a playstation game, all I needed was the "tring-a-ling" & points to add up in the corner of the screen. How it all veered off onto the side of the baddies & I don't mean Smaug. Azog ? Bolg ? anything slimy & reptile looking. AND I got cheesed off with the so called secret stealthy sneaking that Bilbo SHOULD have done when he 1st meets Smaug. Bilbo was meant to be invisible, as I remember didn't he twice have to go down a tunnel to creep in & how he felt the warmth & glow coming off Smaug. Ive got to repeat Pettys observation about Legolas who wasn't even there & his dynamic "Space Invaders" clambering over point scoring blocks ! well done that man ! Your on to the next level Smile No, I cant do this to myself, Ive got over once & Im not going back. The film was shit from start to finish, NO redeeming features AT ALL ! It was the biggest travesty of the year. The only bit I enjoyed was the ending when the credits rolled up. Aidan Turner still thought he was playing Poldark funny man *tutt* & as for the rest of the Dwarves ( really ? were they ? ) you think that ex council housing rabble could pass as aged, experienced, world wise Dwarves ?? only if your on medication can they. Why ? why invent an Elf from "World of Warcraft" that was NEVER in the original story ?? I cant get my head round the fact that so much utter dross had to be included when there was enough to begin with from the original book. If its not racy enough for you feck off & do a film about...I dunno...King Kong ?...…..

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Post by azriel on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:27 am

Hello Gandalf's Beard Smile We haven't been introduced have we, nice to meet you Wave

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Post by Gandalf's Beard on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:25 pm

Lol! Very Happy

Greetings Azriel! It's nice to meet you too! Wave

Aaaand I see I am outnumbered as usual. Laughing

All I have to say is that you lot clearly don't know how to have a good time. Razz

The films are what they are, and what they are is fun, and they work splendidly on their own terms.

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Anyway, to be a bit more serious, surely, if you're that fussed about it, someone with the talent and the right software could do a fan re-edit of the films to get the movie you want. Eru knows there is plenty of material to work with.

Petty, didn't you do a fan re-edit of LotR once upon a time? Or was that someone else?





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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:40 pm

{{I did indeed make those edits Gb and have done same for TH films- but although I can polish a turd it's still a turd. Mad

And I can't see what is fun about those films even if you were a small child- too boring, rambly and without focus for that, characters are not explored enough to be fun or interesting, the action sequences lack any sense of danger or peril or threat and you need that suspense to have fun. As is they are just long, boring sequences of inconsequential nonsense without point. Those films just don't have a redeeming factor. They are awful examples of film  making and atrocious examples of adaptation and a disgrace to Tolkien's work, openly insulting his writing, style and sensibilities with PJ's crude and lowbrow own. Evil or Very Mad }}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:25 pm

The thing that made my blood boil most, and there was a lot to choose from, was Galadriel in Dol Guldur. THAT was unforgivable. No from her great naked flapping feet to the ludicrous ugly horror effects, to swinging Gandalf round like a gigantic dolly, jeez it was bad. Mad they made her look ugly and silly. cant bear to watch it.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:42 pm

I don't remember that scene very well, but I was very much looking forward to seeing Galadriel cast Sauron out of Dol Goldur (I also had this confused with her throwing down the walls of Dol Goldur later).   I wanted to see her being a complete bad-ass.  But the scene disappointed me.  Probably my preconceptions - Galadriel's usually pretty laid back; but in my view when she up and DECIDES to be a badass, there's no doubt who's gonna win.  She just up and slaps folks into line. The fact that later on during the War of the Ring she actually cast down the fortress of Dol Gulder itself shows that she's not a bitch you can mess with when she's got her dander up.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:53 pm

The thing that perplexed me was the way she looked evil when demonstrating her power, they made her power look evil, that was unforgivable. Mad

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Post by halfwise on Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:17 pm

Ah, now I remember. that wasn't right. They showed her being badass, but not the right kind of badass. I went back and watched clips of it: at first when she flipped off the orc it was about right, then she looked uncertain and not at all badass when the nazgul showed up. Finally when Sauron showed up she turned into evil badass bitch instead of righteous badass bitch. Ruined it.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:16 pm

..and then she twittered and fainted when her 'hero' Elrond shows up Rolling Eyes

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Post by halfwise on Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:55 pm

Rolling Eyes

It was Galadriel who later threw down the walls of Dol Goldur.  Sure, Celeborn showed up first and did some house cleaning by way of chasing all the orcses out (ho-hum guy stuff), but to really make shit go 'boom!' you need Galadriel.  Elrond doesn't figure into it.  At least they had her be the one to kick Sauron out, so they realized she was the key figure, I'll give them that.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:13 pm

She would have kicked him out with beauty and majesty, but PJ ruined it. No

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Post by Bluebottle on Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:01 am

Peter Hitchens illuminating take on Harry Potter (and the Deathly Hallows):

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/books/review/Hitchens-t.html

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Post by azriel on Tue May 28, 2019 9:36 am

https://www.facebook.com/ForReadingAddicts/videos/2013040568991871/


I may not go all ga ga over HP but this cake is too good to break into Smile

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Post by azriel on Tue May 28, 2019 9:49 am

Bluebottle wrote:Peter Hitchens illuminating take on Harry Potter (and the Deathly Hallows):

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/books/review/Hitchens-t.html

Interesting read Nod

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