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Post by Lorient Avandi on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:31 pm

My take of the Star Wars films released since I've been gone:

Force Awakens: Bad, but had a lot of potential. Set up things that could've been really cool

Rogue One: Amazing. Hands down my favorite Star Wars film

Last Jedi: Absolute garbage. Destroyed the possible interesting things set up by Force Awakens, as well as destroying characters and breaking the universe.

Solo: Also amazing, definitely top 3 or 4 Star Wars film for me. Was true to Han's character, had a good connection to the rest of the universe.

Just my brief 2 cents

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:09 am

Strange, and I liked TFA and TLJ better than the stand-alones.

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Post by Lorient Avandi on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:23 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:Strange, and I liked TFA and TLJ better than the stand-alones.

To each their own, that's the beauty of entertainment Very Happy .

My problem with TFA is it seemed to diminish the events of ROTJ to being nearly meaningless (the new, reformed Empire is back, stronger than ever, and now the 'good guys' are merely Rebels again, and the Jedi have disappeared from the Galaxy, again) and it was more or less a rehash of ANH, except for Rey being a Mary Sue who can do anything where Luke was pretty trash at everything up to finally trusting in the force to destroy the Death Star, and he was actually training.

TLJ butchered every potential interesting plot point set up by TFA (who is Snoke, who are Rey's parents, why is Luke hiding out, who are the Knights of Ren... etc), continued on the things TFA did poorly (why is Rey a master at everything she tries to do), ruined characters (Luke), broke the universe with new additions (force projection, running into things in hyperspace, Mary Poppins Leia, etc), had boring and unnecessary plotlines (Finn and the gambling planet), more forced humor than any Marvel movie and did it poorly (Star Wars has always had humorous quips throughout its films, but never to the ridiculous extent TLJ did) and I could go on and on.

The standalone films were great in my opinion because they did what Star Wars has desperately needed since Disney axed the EU, they world-build, expanding greatly on things that are only hinted at or mentioned in the main films. They had protagonists who were believable, and relatable, not ones who were gods at anything they tried to do for the first time. They dealt with the universe in a somewhat believable fashion, never pushing to far at already established canon. I personally liked the grittiness and seriousness of Rogue One a lot as well.

Unfortunately the stand-alone films have been put on hold due to the lackluster box-office performance of Solo. I think that had more to do with its release so soon after TLJ and fans' dislike of TLJ than the actual quality of Solo as a film (TLJ is the most disliked theatrical live-action Star Wars film by fans, though critics raved about it). This means the rumored Obi-wan, Boba Fett, and Yoda films are not going to be coming any time soon.

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Post by halfwise on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:19 pm

Solo didn't do well because the writers didn't really capture Han Solo and nobody can capture Harrison Ford. We discussed it in length back a ways.

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Post by Lorient Avandi on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:59 pm

halfwise wrote:Solo didn't do well because the writers didn't really capture Han Solo and nobody can capture Harrison Ford.  We discussed it in length back a ways.

I read through a lot of what was posted, and I still don't agree that's the case as to why it didn't do well at the box office. That may be why some people who saw it didn't like it as much, but I wouldn't say that's why it didn't do well because you can make the same arguments about Luke in the Last Jedi, that he was written poorly and wasn't true to the character of Luke, yet the Last Jedi still did well in the box office. Doing well doesn't always correlate to being bad/good as a movie. Much of it has to do with how excited people are to see it.

You can't honestly say opening less than 6 months after the most disliked Star Wars film of all time doesn't have anything to do with the lackluster performance of Solo, can you? I mean there was a small-but-vocal crowd that straight up boycotted Solo because of TLJ. I'm still in the camp that a) It wasn't appropriately advertised b)It opened too soon after TLJ regardless of TLJ doing well or not [SW fatigue] and c) Opening so soon after TLJ being so disliked. It may have not written Han as well as many would've like, but I think that has far less impact on its performance than the other aspects.

Rogue One did well in the box office, but opened a full year after TFA (which was well liked by far more than TLJ was) and didn't have any better of a critical or fan reception as Solo overall

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Post by Lancebloke on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:15 pm

I didn't go to watch Solo because of TLJ. I have only just seen it on normal T.V.
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Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:07 pm

TLJ was really boring.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:43 pm

Han Solo film. boring plot, boring lead actor with zero charisma. That was not Han Solo. why cant they make original imaginative films any more?

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Post by Lancebloke on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:57 am

I didn't think Solo was a bad film, but it wasn't good either. It built.on some interesting mythology and had some reasonable characters but it also had some lazy writing (E.g. the origin of the Solo name, the personality of the robot which seemed to come straight out of Rogue One).

It was an average movie.

I did like Rogue One. It had some problems, mainly in the first act which looked like it had been directed by several people before someone got hold of it and tried to make a cohesive story. On the other hand I thought it was a fresh look at the universe, it was a bit more gritty in its tone but that was balanced by some stunning, polished visuals and interesting characters.

TFA was again an average film. It had some good moments (X-wings over the lake!!), but it also seemed to have some lazy writing and, as mentioned before, made the whole struggle that started in episode 1 through to 6 seem pointless.

Less said about TLJ the better.

Hope for episode 9 though. I think everything that has happened to to the Star Wars licence recently (Solo flop, Battlefront game fan backlash etc) has given some people a wake up call. This one needs to be good otherwise Disney's major long term investment may not have been so great
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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:17 pm

I liked Rogue One too. it seemed fresher and the characters were memorable.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:22 pm

My assessment matches Lance's on all points.  I think the howl about Solo was because it should have been a great film.  That you would take one of the greatest characters in cinematic history and make a so-so film out of it was criminal.  They did right by hiring Lawrence Kasdan, but then they shuttled him off to write TFA and his son took over.  Stupid, should have waited.  Then the project was handed off from a pair of relatively unknown directors to Ron Howard.  Stupid, should never have hired those first two for a project like this.

It was a hand-off job all the way, and so rushed.  It deserved better.


Last edited by halfwise on Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:40 pm

The should have found the right actor for the job first then even so-so writing wouldn't have looked so meh. so-so actor and so-so writing was a no-no.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:52 pm

They saw over 3000 actors audition for the part. They tried. Too bad Nathan Fillion from Firefly was too old: he's about the only one who could have pulled it off.

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Post by Lorient Avandi on Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:22 pm

Alden Ehrenreich was fine, but I think to really live up to Harrison Ford you would've needed a truly great actor (a la a younger Nathan Fillion as halfwise mentioned). Alden wasn't bad per se, I think it was a mix of less-than-stellar writing, and his lack of charisma on the level of Ford's.

But I still loved Solo. Still in my top 3 SW films.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 pm

It annoyed mainly because it wasn't great.  Wasn't a bad film.

Rogue One needed some flow control at the beginning, and I continue to lament imagery that was in some trailers but didn't make it into the film.  I'd love to see a director's cut, or recut.  Hadn't heard that there was studio interference, but I think it could have spent a bit more time incubating both in writing and post production.  Despite this it stands out as the third best film in the entire series in my thinking (New Hope, Empire, Rogue One).

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Post by Lorient Avandi on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:04 pm

Rogue One is my favorite in the series, followed by Revenge of the Sith, then Solo. I believe they had a lot of reshoots for it though, relatively close to its release as well, which is what may have messed with the pacing.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:44 pm

You are way out in left field in your SW tastes, but perhaps everyone is being influenced by what they first saw on the big screen. Nobody between the ages of 45 to 55 would entertain the thought that the original Star Wars (so-called "New Hope") and Empire can be anything except top 2. Younger generations have disconcertingly liberal ideas on this. I'll concede that Rogue One could have been the best based on visuals alone. Why hasn't Gareth Edwards been pulled back in?

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:21 pm

halfwise wrote:They saw over 3000 actors audition for the part.  They tried.  Too bad Nathan Fillion from Firefly was too old: he's about the only one who could have pulled it off.  

yep Nathan Fillion would have been a good match

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Post by halfwise on Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:56 pm

Then again, can we even see Han Solo in a young actor? His kind of style only comes with experience. I don't think anyone under the age of 30 (at least) could ever pull it off convincingly.

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Post by Lorient Avandi on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:06 am

halfwise wrote:You are way out in left field in your SW tastes, but perhaps everyone is being influenced by what they first saw on the big screen.  Nobody between the ages of 45 to 55 would entertain the thought that the original Star Wars (so-called "New Hope") and Empire can be anything except top 2.  Younger generations have disconcertingly liberal ideas on this.  I'll concede that Rogue One could have been the best based on visuals alone.  Why hasn't Gareth Edwards been pulled back in?

Not really, as you said it seems age groups have different tastes regarding SW. I know many people who consider ROTS hands down the best SW film, though many of these people tend to be more casual SW fans. I wouldn't go so far as to say that, but there are a lot who are my age or younger who do.

Star Wars used to be my favorite series before Disney's buyout, but my favorite parts of it were in the EU, and have since been retconned to nonexistence. I haven't had a big love of the films for a long time. The thing is, they aren't that great of films. Any of them. Many of the OT people's complaints about the PT can be reversed right back on them. Bad writing in the Prequels? Originals had terrible writing too! Bad acting in the Prequels? Was anyone in the Originals besides Harrison Ford a decent actor?

My favorite part of Star Wars has always been the universe itself, which Rogue One and Solo do decently at expanding on. I've never been a big Jedi fan, so the near nonexistence of Jedi in those two films are also bonuses for me. I really like the storyline and premise of Revenge of the Sith as well (Anakin's fall and Palpatine's ultimate takeover). All of the Prequels do a good job of expanding the world (even if PM and AotC are lacking in the dialogue department). People's complaint that the Prequels remove some of the "mysticism" from the Force? I say good on 'em, I like midichlorians. The complaint that AotC is "boring" or has "too much politics"? I think that helps the world be more believable and real. I like Empire, ANH, and RotJ a good amount, but they aren't my favorites in the series by any means.

I'd probably put my list of SW films in an order like this (though anything after Solo and before The Force Awakens is a little muddled for me...)

1. Rogue One
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Solo
4. Empire Strikes Back
5. Attack of the Clones
6. Return of the Jedi
7. A New Hope
8. Phantom Menace
9. The Force Awakens
10. The Last Jedi


Last edited by Lorient Avandi on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:32 am

halfwise wrote:Then again, can we even see Han Solo in a young actor?  His kind of style only comes with experience.  I don't think anyone under the age of 30 (at least) could ever pull it off convincingly.

this guy is spookily good as a young Harrison Ford.


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Post by halfwise on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:43 am

Damn, that IS scary good. Why didn't this get that guy? He has all the tics and slight self doubts you saw in the real Han but not the fake one they ran with.

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Post by halfwise on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:56 am

Now I'm angry. We could have had a real Han, he was out there. Mad

I've just realized that the reason we remember the swagger of Han is because he constantly showed the moments of doubt, of momentarily being at loss, which made it believable. But we forget that and only remember the swagger because it was believable. I can't believe the producers didn't interview this guy, but they skipped over him because they were looking for pure swagger, and this guy was able to show the vulnerability and foibles that made us love the real Han.

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Post by Lancebloke on Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:05 am

Lorient - that is definitely an odd ordering!

I agree that there was some bad acting and some bad writing in the OT. It is remembered upon fondly because it was something new.... like people who saw Alien when it came out. That has all been done to death these days and few people who come to it new, it isn't such a big thing.... it even looks bad in many cases.

Halfy - I am pretty sure RO went through a few directors and multiple reshoots after the execs saw it.

To highlight some points that I and some other have made. I think I am gonna try and do some top 5s. This will be my own opinion based on what was around when I saw them

Top 5 visuals:

1. Death Star destroying Scariff - Rogue One
2. Battle of Coruscant - Revenge of the Sith
3. X-wings over the lake - The Force Awakens
4. Star Destroyer chasing down Blockrunner - A New Hope
5. Millennium Falcon in the Asteroid Field - Empire Strikes Back

(Honourable mention - Star Destroyer explosion in background on Admiral Ackbar - Return of the Jedi)

Top 5 Scenes:

1. Vader boards the rebel flagship - Rogue One
2. Obi Wan and Qui Gon vs Darth Maul - Phantom Menace
3. First Vader force choke - A New Hope
4. Anakin storms the Jedi Palace - Revenge of the Sith
5. "I know" - Empire Strikes Back

(Honourable mention - Kylo stops the sniper bolt from Poe's rifle - The Force Awakens)

Top 5 cringe moments

1. Princes Poppins - The Last Jedi
2. Introduction of Jar Jar - Phantom Menace
3. Noooooooo! - Revenge of the Sith
4. Maz Kanata hologram battle - The Last Jedi
5. "Han....... Solo" - Solo

(Honourable mention - all the shit jokes in The Last Jedi)

Top 5 "If you need the toilet, go now" moments:

1. Casino Planet - The Last Jedi
2. Anakin leaves his mum - Phantom Menace
3. Droid factory - Attack of the Clones
4. Amidala gives glowy ball - Phantom Menace
5. Diner scene - Phantom Menace

(Honourable mention - "...from a certain point of view" - Empire Strikes Back)

Not much mention from Attack of the Clones. Maybe I am forgetting some bits... maybe that is the problem with the film!! Not too much from TFA either!
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Post by Lorient Avandi on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:19 am

I'm surprised "I hate sand" didnt make the "Cringe Moments"

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