The Fall of Gondolin (coming August 2018)

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Post by Eldy on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:52 am

halfwise wrote:Did Children of Hurin make a massive splash? Shocked  I thought it was only occasionally mentioned outside the geekosphere.

It topped the NYT fiction bestsellers list (link), though only for one week. Beren and Lúthien peaked at number six on the hardcover fiction list last year, though it doesn't even appear in the top 15 on the combined print and e-book list for that week.

I don't recall a whole lot about pop culture events from 2007 in general, but just considering online Tolkien fandom, it received orders of magnitude more attention than Beren and Lúthien or The Fall of Gondolin, presumably because there was a lot more activity at the time. I don't work in a bookstore anymore but I recall Tolkien's Beowulf translation (published in 2014) getting more of a push than B&L did last year. I can't comment beyond my experience/that of my store, though. Shrugging
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Post by Eldy on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:53 am

Aaaaaand simulpost while I was digging up links. Razz
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Post by halfwise on Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:35 am

I was actually disappointed in Tolkien's Beowulf, I think perhaps because some of the more poetic things translators had come up with were brought back to earth by JRRT. For instance "whale-road" became "whale-way".

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:31 am

I like Heaney's Beowulf. Smile

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Post by halfwise on Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:38 am

That name sounds familiar.  For me the test of Beowulf comes when reading the first description of the underwater cave where Grendel and his mother lives: the meer surrounded by tangled hoar-frosted trees; the fire in the water; the stag that when chased by wolves will turn to fight at the waters edge rather than swim to save itself.  The description should raise the hair on the back of your neck.  I have a translation by Michael Alexander which doesn't quite get you there, but I remember reading another version which raised goose bumps; it may have been the Heaney translation.

I think it's okay for a translator to be a little less precise in order to capture the proper feeling.  I feel Tolkien aimed more for precision, and I wanted him to rather bring forth his writer's gifts.  The archaeologist Norman Hammond presented a translation of the opening lines of Gilgamesh which were superb and I wish he would come out with a translation of the full text.  What I have feels pedestrian in comparison.

A fun comparison of translations: http://www.editoreric.com/greatlit/books/Beowulf-translations.html

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm

{{I haven't had the chance to get Tolkien's translation- and that comparison of opening passages doesn't include him- you wouldn't happen to have Tolkien's opening would you so I can see what he did with it- I have the audio book version, the Heaney translation.Its also on youtube- }}




{{Though reading the comments on that it seems 's abridged }}

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Post by malickfan on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:27 pm

I bought Tolkien's Beowulf but I never got round to reading much of it, the annotations and editorial commentary were pretty interesting as I recall, but as someone with little exposure or knowledge of the legend and Old English in general, I found Tolkien's translation a little hard to get into, the completist in me bought it because of the Tolkien name, probably should have done a bit more research beforehand, heard good things about the Heaney translation. Doubt I will get B+L or Gondolin anytime soon, as I've already got all the HOME volumes and Alan Lee's illustrations seem a bit drab and phoned in in his more recent work i.m.o...

I'll give it another shot someday, but I always have lots more on my to read pile of books anyway...

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Post by halfwise on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:55 pm

I would have quoted Tolkien's version, but I can't find the damn thing! Mad   should be stacked with all my other Tolkien books but not to be found. It will surface in a few years....

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Post by TranshumanAngel on Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:31 am

I think if I already owned the HoME volumes I would not have bought FoG. But, its a nice set to have if you don't have access to HoME (and I'm probably never going to purchase them).
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Post by Eldy on Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:34 am

I'm glad you're enjoying your copy, THA. Thumbs Up
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Post by Elthir on Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:31 am

I just got my copy. Good to have Gondolin all in one place, so to speak. And now we have special treatments, in a sense, of three Great Tales.

Love the tale, but hard not to feel the 1950s knife dig in again, following Tuor . . . and stopping just outside Gondolin!

Nice illustrations by Lee. My favorite colour illustration, no doubt the cover. Love his pencil touches.

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Post by RA on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:14 am

I just got my copy of Fall of Gondolin. I've been going on a Lord of the Rings spree since it'd been a while since I'd read them. Figured I'd get this version since I haven't read Book of Lost Tales (or much of the Histories of Middle Earth) for a few years now.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:35 pm

{{ One thing Ive been meaning to do is to see if its possible now we've a few more books from the past, to read them all in chronological order. Would be interesting experiment I think as it would also involve reading select bits at the appropriate times in other narratives from other books- such as giving the UT piece on the disaster of the gladden fields a read after the first defeat of Sauron but before starting LotR's, then going back to UT at the appropriate time in the LotR's to read about the fall of Theodred and later the Rohirrim defence of the Fords etc before going back to the main LotR's narrative. }}

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:38 pm

I like it! A kind of meta-narrative, almost.

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Post by halfwise on Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:57 pm

It would be stylistically too disjointed.  You'd have to read LotR as the overarching story, with parts of UT and appendices as press releases and opinion pieces to decorate the main story along the way.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:39 pm

{{ The stylistic shift would be quite big in many cases, though I dont think going from the Fall of Gondolin say to LotR's is as big as say going from the Lay of Beren and Luthien to it would be.
But when it comes to stuff like say the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, which is given something akin to a modern day archaeologist establishing the events based on the evidence than as a narrative in the true sense, I think it would just be more like reading annotations.
But I think it might give a very unique perspective on the history and the events when seen in order and taken as a whole.}}

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Post by RA on Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:15 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ The stylistic shift would be quite big in many cases, though I dont think going from the Fall of Gondolin say to LotR's is as big as say going from the Lay of Beren and Luthien to it would be.
But when it comes to stuff like say the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, which is given something akin to a modern day archaeologist  establishing the events based on the evidence than as a narrative in the true sense, I think it would just be more like reading annotations.
But I think it might give a very unique perspective on the history and the events when seen in order and taken as a whole.}}
I'm doing a 'read through' via audio book right now of the series. First time I've listened to Lord of the Rings on audio instead of reading it. It's kinda nice. After messing around with the Histories of Middle Earth for the last couple weeks, it's nice to get back to the proper form and structure of the narrative from the trilogy. I think adding stuff UT would make it feel too disjointed as they exist now.

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Post by halfwise on Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 pm

I dunno, when I watch historical films on netflix I'll often stop partway through to read up on backstory. If you're on your own pace it can work.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:09 pm

I think adding stuff UT would make it feel too disjointed as they exist now.- RA

{{Oh I'd never recommend it as a good way to read the books, it would utterly destroy the pacing, flow and well everything.
But if your on your so many I lost count ages ago read of it and know almost every page inside out, then it offers a new oversight and a more intellectual exercise rather than a straight reading for normal book reading reasons.

Another way to do it of course would be rather than chronologically do it narratively. Use LotR's as the base narrative and ever time the story mentions some major past event go read all about it- so when Gandalf tells Frodo about Gollum, nip off for a read of everything on the hunt for Gollum, when Bilbo sings of Gondolin its time to go read the Fall of Gonfdolin, when Aragorn sings of Luthien time fore the Lay of Luthien and Beren etc.

Which audio version is it? There is a guy did the entire book on youtube, I can never make up my mind if I like it or not, he basically impersonates a lot of the film actors, and he uses film music and sound effects in some scenes, which is what I dont like most of all, but its certainly a very different take than the official audio book version and his reading is otherwise very good.}}


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Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:49 am

Interesting, feels too fan-fictiony to me though, in a bad way and not a good way.

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Post by RA on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:09 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote: I think adding stuff UT would make it feel too disjointed as they exist now.- RA

{{Oh I'd never recommend it as a good way to read the books, it would utterly destroy the pacing, flow and well everything.
But if your on your so many I lost count ages ago read of it and know almost every page inside out, then it offers a new oversight and a more intellectual exercise rather than a straight reading for normal book reading reasons.

Another way to do it of course would be rather than chronologically do it narratively. Use LotR's as the base narrative and ever time the story mentions some major past event go read all about it- so when Gandalf tells Frodo about Gollum, nip off for a read of everything on the hunt for Gollum, when Bilbo sings of Gondolin its time to go read the Fall of Gonfdolin, when Aragorn sings of Luthien time fore the Lay of Luthien and Beren etc.
I might try that. it sounds interesting...

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Which audio version is it? There is a guy did the entire book on youtube, I can never make up my mind if I like it or not, he basically impersonates a lot of the film actors, and he uses film music and sound effects in some scenes, which is what I dont like most of all, but its certainly a very different take than the official audio book version and his reading is otherwise very good.}}

I've been listening to the version narrated by Rob Inglis. I burnt them to CD and I've been listening to them in the car during a series of long road trips. It's pretty fun to listen to long chunks of the story at a time on the road.

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Post by RA on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:11 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:Interesting, feels too fan-fictiony to me though, in a bad way and not a good way.
I agree something feels off about it. Adding music and stuff can work sometimes but something about it feels in-congruent.

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Post by halfwise on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:38 pm

He does have a knack for voices, if all of those are his.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:18 am

{{ Yeah he does all the voices, Id like ot hear a version without the effects and music added personally. He's read the whole of LotR's so all credit to him for the work load.

I have the Inglis version too RA, and I do like it but I tend to listen to them when Im dropping off to sleep these days and my only issue with them is every time it gets to  a song and he starts singing it wakes me back up every time!  Mad Although in your case that same effect could come in handy if your driving and nodding off!}}

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