All New Who

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:27 pm

EOLO is Italian, I think its the satellite antenna thingie, its popular because of the lack of wifi coverage. I know where I live there are leopard spot areas where there is no reception for wifi and then down the road they have it, so even if you buy the wifi box it wont function. the dongle can be used anywhere because its a mobile phone connection as somebody said.

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:20 pm

I haven't watched the episode yet, but you guys aren't exactly doing a good job of persuading me to Neutral Laughing sounds much like I expected from Chibnall.

Glad Jodie's been well received, I've long been in favour of a female Doctor and she's a great actress.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:47 pm

I was in a pretty good mood just now, and then Petty reminded me about River Song surviving the Nazi's bullets. GAAAAH, I hated that episode.-Forest

{{Really? Its one of my go to episodes for when I want Who that's just fun, and over the top and will make me smile.
Its like Moffat took my two favourite childhood comics, Commando and Dandy and combined them with Who.
So we have Nazi's and Hitler, and we have the Nubskulls in the Tesselector!
Its a solid scifi core- time travelling humans shrunk down inside a shape-shifting robot, who travel back in time to meet out punishment to those who historically escaped justice.
Its got some classic dialogue in it that always raises a smile with me, and thats not easy!

RORY: Right. Putting Hitler in the cupboard. Cupboard, Hitler. Hitler, cupboard. Come on.
HITLER: But I am the Fuhrer!
RORY: Right, in you go!
HITLER: Who are you?



....



RORY: Is anybody else finding today just a bit difficult? I'm getting a sort of banging in my head.
AMY: Yeah, I think that's Hitler in the cupboard.
RORY: That's not helping.



or

[size=13]RORY: Come on!
AMY: Can you ride a motorbike?
RORY: I expect so. It's that sort of day.
[/size]


[size=13]Its just full of lovely little lines like that,its a fun story with a rogue early River trying to kill the Doctor, nice dialogue there too-[/size]



[size=13][size=13]DOCTOR: What have you done?
RIVER: It was never going to be a gun for you, Doctor. The man of peace who understands every kind of warfare, except, perhaps, the cruellest. Kiss. Kiss.
[/size][/size]


[size=13][size=13]and I love the killer robot anti-bodies- they are so polite![/size][/size]



[size=13][size=13][size=13]RORY: Okay. Okay, I am trapped inside a giant robot replica of my wife. I'm really trying not to see this as a metaphor.
AMY: How can we be in here?
RORY: Er.
AMY: How do we fit?
RORY: Miniaturisation ray.
AMY: How would you know that?
RORY: Well, there was a ray, and we were miniaturised.
AMY: All right.
ANTIBODY: Welcome. You are unauthorised. Your death will now be implemented.
AMY: Er, what's that?
RORY: Er, I don't know. It's in your head.
ANTIBODY: Please remain calm while your life is terminated.
AMY: We come in peace!
RORY: When has that ever worked?
AMY: Oh, shut up!
(They try to run but are trapped.)
ANTIBODY: Please cooperate in your officially sanctioned termination. It is normal to experience fear during your incineration.
[/size][/size][/size]


[size=13][size=13][size=13]I just find it a lot of fun. Its also really well shot and edited.
[/size][/size][/size]


[size=13][size=13][size=13]
[/size][/size][/size]


[size=13][size=13][size=13]
[/size][/size][/size]


[size=13][size=13][size=13]}}}
[/size][/size][/size]

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Re: All New Who

Post by Forest Shepherd on Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:12 am

Most of those things you mention were fine, not a problem! It was bloody whats-her-name, pre-regeneration, that bugged me. I would need to re-watch to specifically pin-point what I mean. I've only seen it once, after all.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:50 am

I would need to re-watch to specifically pin-point what I mean. - Forest

{{Always happy to help out a Whovian Smile }}


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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:34 pm

{{{ My thoughts on the Ghost Monument-

Ok just going to break this down into good bit and bad bits, get the bad out the way first.


Spoiler:

Its another Chibnal written episode and it suffers some of the same issues as last weeks- the plot is threadbare- a rich guy runs a dangerous space race, the last two surviving pilots have made it to the final dangerous planet in the race, called Desolation, to claim their prize- first to the Ghost Monument wins.

The episode opens with Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy- in that the Doctor and Yaz get picked up by one of the racers, and Grahame and Ryan the other. Wonder what Adams would have put the odds of that at?!!

So they end up on the planet, and all meet up and then basically the entire episode is them getting from point A to pint B. There are a couple of action sequences to break it up and they get to their goal- the ghost monument being the TARDIS phasing in and out. This could have been a cool twist- but rather than that being a final reveal, they just out right show you at the start that the Ghost Monument is the TARDIS (some of Jodies best performances in this one are her reactions to seeing the TARDIS again)

But this means basically what we get is action scene- walking/travelling scene where one character or another gives us exposition or backstory (Show dont tell!!), and once more some of the dialogue seems very on the nose.
The Doctors position on guns has not been made this explicit since Tennants "The man who never would!" speech, and its even more obnoxious and self congratulatory here.

But worse- remember that really clumsy bit last week with the marked to die grandpa? Well this weeks worst clumsy line is out of nowhere, in a walking exposition scene, one of the pilots pulls out a cigar, makes some ludicrous claims about its rarity and manufacturing, and then inexplicitly says it has a self lighting mechanism that works by clicking your fingers- they may as well have a neon sign above it saying 'important plot device for later'. And sure enough the Doctor uses it to save the day from killer robots bandages by igniting gas.

This is one of the major and crap difference v iew between Moffat and Chibnal-  one of Moffats skills is misdirection, he makes you look left when the plot device has been right in front of you the whole time- Chibnall just points you right at it and slaps you on the head and shouts "This will be important later!" in your ear. Its really clumsy.

Oh and the TARDIS- remember how everyone thought the leaked pics looked hideous and the BBC were furious because it wasn't properly lit ect and didn't look amazing like it did on camera?- they lied- its fucking hideous, like the industrial revolution drank gallons of luminous sticky alcoholic drinks then threw up all over the console area. If anything it looked even worse than the leaked pics. It also seemd completely at odds for me withthe new personality of this Doctor.

Also Jodie- she still feels like she is trying to hard in some scenes to be quirky, but in others she had me convinced no problem, but her main issue for me is how her Doctor is written- I am beginning to get annoyed by her constantly chipper demeanour, she is always upbeat and she is always giving out moral lessons- the gun speech being a prime example. And when she enters the TARDIS to find it changed we get the "Oh you've redecorated' line, only this time she ends it with "I love it!" which rather sums up her never a negative word about anyone or anything personality.

Ok onto the good- some of the character moments are good the two supporting actors do their job well. It all look amazing again thought the direction is once more a bit pedestrian in my opinion. The bandage creatures look a bit off mind you- yes there are killer bandages in this as your monster of the week, or should that be weak monster! And killer robots- that's your lot for foes. There is the guy who sets up the race but he isnt really a villain and only bookends the story.

The incidental music continues to impress- they've moved the titles to the episodes start so no intro bit pre-credits, and is a lot shorter- which was ok as at leats the new theme tune didn't last long enough for the percussion to make my ears bleed. The title visuals are a nice call back to classic too.

Struggling here on the positives- its just a pretty basic plot, some forgettable action sequences with forgettable foes, a few nice character moments- Ryan continues to be the most likeable followed by Grahme, that might be because Yaz is still a character waiting on a personality to turn up. Killing Grace last week comes up again, but it doesn't get much time, one conversation between Ryan and Grahame- which I liked- but as predicted its causing problems as a writing thing to have started the story with two characters who should be grieving- it sort of feels shoved in here because they have to address it, they've made a rod for their own backs seems to me.

Oh and despite Chibbers claiming its all stand alones, no overarching plot- there appears to be one to do with the tooth-fairy from last week- if he was going to be the big bad for the series you'd think they'd have fleshed him out more than they did and not made him a Predator knock-off.

And if your keeping count on the pc girl-power front- well the two supporting characters, the pilots, are one male one female- one of them is on a noble cause to win to save their family from the evil tooth-fairy people and is kind hearted, generous, tough and capable, the other is a bit unpleasant, selfish, in to win for themselves, believes there is noone else you can trust but yourself, they are cocky, brash, rude but have a sad backstory to soften them up a bit so they can learn their lesson by episodes end that its better to work and trust others than be alone.
Ill let you guess which one is the female pilot and which the male! (Oh and the female pilot also had a wife, naturally). }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:48 pm

{{The new TARDIS exterior- see if you think its gorgeous or as butt ugly as I do!




And the new titles and theme }}


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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:29 am

{{Things that dont make sense in the latest episode!


Spoiler:

The odds of getting rescued whilst floating in deep space are very small, the odds of it happening twice in quick succession? Mind-boggling.

The planet Desolation is supposedly deadly- it has three suns- but other than the boat being solar powered it never comes up, no one gets thirsty or hot because of it despite the place being a desert and having three suns. Its never a threat.

We are told the water is full of flesh eating microbes, then it never comes up again- what's the point? Where were all the hardships of this planet?- they get mentioned yet never actually come up in the story or ever effect any characters.

Ryan- how exactly does his illness work he falls over running from a crashing spaceship, yet he can leap out with a gun, pinpoint accurately shoot down half a dozen robots, and run back to cover when they retaliate no problem at all- yet they bring it up again when he has to climb a ladder - and then dont use it, it just cuts to them all at the top of the ladder!

Talking of the shooting scene- what was it for? Did the Doctor let him go out there, with a good chance of death, just to make her point?

The bandage monsters? Supposedly created by the scientists on this planet, forced to come up with evil weaponry ect for the Stenzar- so they created deadly bandages? And how did they know about the 'bad wolf' series plot device' the timeless child?' they made psychic bandages?- also the bandages only seem to exist to turn up, give the plot exposition for the arc and get blown up immediately having done so.

Hell of a coincidence that if the TARDIS only phases in and out every 1000 cycles that it does it while they happen to be standing there.

Show dont tell- the backstory to the scientists and the planet is literally read off the floor! Nothing is worked out, there are no clues leading up to the discovery- the entire history of the place is simply read off the inscription on the floor.

Right before the TARDIS turned up the Doctor inexplicitly just gave up all hope- in a totally unDoctory fashion. What was that about?

What's happened to the editing? That's two episodes in a row Ive felt the editing was dodgy and didn't support the actors or narrative.

I get the unfortunate feeling that in a second watch I will see more and more of these issues!!
}}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:37 am

Well, this guy has something to say & I agree with some, not all, but some of what he says. I still haven't watched the 1st episode & Il be buggered if Im sitting up till 2.30 in the morning to catch the repeat. IL be honest & say Im F$%&ed off its a woman Dr. Ive lost interest & see nowhere for this to progress into the future.


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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:19 am

{{Its not feminism or a female Doctor that is giving me worries Az, its the writing- plots that are barely there, exposition all over the place, at least one too many 'friends' as Yaz has dropped off into the background two episodes in a row now (has she even said a single word to Grahame yet?), clumsy plot devices that are flagged up in the most obvious ways as plot devices, and a Doctor who so far lacks much of the Dcotor's sarcasm, impatience with stupid people or the sense of arrogance the Doctor has always carried about himself in the past and doesn't rise to the gravitas of the role yet, again this is largely because the script has denied her any real proper big Doctor moments or speeches to get her acting chops into- but so far the evidence is not there for me she can do that angry, dark aspect of the Doctor.

Someone on Gallifrey Base described her best for me by saying it was like she was wearing the character of the Doctor like a coat, rather than inhabiting the coat from the inside. Her Doctor ticks a lot of the Doctor boxes, but clumsily, like her gun speech, too on the nose and upfront.
There is something unfortunately weak about her Doctor in the writing so far- she needs something a bit more than being chippy all the time to work with and the scripts are not providing much meat on the bone. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:19 pm

That idiot on the Youtube vid is a classic whining man-baby full of female hating pseudo-bollox disguised as 'the facts'. fuq him and fuq his poison.

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Re: All New Who

Post by halfwise on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:50 pm

Though the guy has a point about the dynamic being off, it's not due to having a woman in the part.  I think they put the wrong woman in the part: someone like Dame Helen Mirren would have given this guy all the crustiness and arrogance he could have ever wished for.  It's too bad Michelle Gomez is taken, for she would have been great.

I think part of the reason the writing is bad is they are not properly inspired by their lead.  She's not a bad actor, she's just not right for the part.  Add to that what seems to be poor writing to begin with and it's doomed.

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Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:16 pm

That's a good choice Halfy, Helen Mirren, yep, she can add strength to the character plus she can give that side long "I don't give a fuck" look Smile Im sure she could make a few knees wibble & not necessarily with desire. in fact I can see her pointing a sonic screwdriver with that "dare me" look & giving just as good as she gets. Id believe in that one better. From what Ive seen via trailers etc Jodie is too soft in nature. I couldn't believe she'd be able to take the froth off a coffee. And if "they" do beef her up over time that, is wrong in my book, she should have started off beefy & then we've got something to run with. Dr Who, in all his incarnations, made me feel safe. The face may change but, I knew that he could have the guts to be strong, defensive, brave. Jodie is the girl you go shopping to H&M or Topshop with. Im sounding so negative & I haven't watched the 1st episode yet Smile

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:43 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Its not feminism or a female Doctor that is giving me worries Az, its the writing- plots that are barely there, exposition all over the place, at least one too many 'friends' as Yaz has dropped off into the background two episodes in a row now (has she even said a single word to Grahame yet?), clumsy plot devices that are flagged up in the most obvious ways as plot devices, and a Doctor who so far lacks much of the Dcotor's sarcasm, impatience with stupid people or the sense of arrogance the Doctor has always carried about himself in the past and doesn't rise to the gravitas of the role yet, again this is largely because the script has denied her any real proper big Doctor moments or speeches to get her acting chops into- but so far the evidence is not there for me she can do that angry, dark aspect of the Doctor.

Someone on Gallifrey Base described her best for me by saying it was like she was wearing the character of the Doctor like a coat, rather than inhabiting the coat from the inside. Her Doctor ticks a lot of the Doctor boxes, but clumsily, like her gun speech, too on the nose and upfront.
There is something unfortunately weak about her Doctor in the writing so far- she needs something a bit more than being chippy all the time to work with and the scripts are not providing much meat on the bone. }}}

I think Jodie is trying too hard to be the Doctor, she sounds more like Mary Poppins than the Doctor, I hate all that false cheeriness. ffs.

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Re: All New Who

Post by halfwise on Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:51 pm

Took me a while but I think I worked out 'ffs': -ucking -emale -it. Could almost have a whole 'nother meaning.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:38 pm


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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:17 am

{{Some more things that seem like sloppy writing and dont make sense from that episode-

Spoiler:


They make a big deal at the start that the planet is in the wrong place and has fallen out its orbit- then it never gets a reference again- why did it fall out of orbit, why is it in the wrong place? Its a plot point then its not.

We are told the winner of the race is the first person to reach the Ghost Monument- but neither of them do- they dont even see it- the finish line is actually a tent, near where the Ghost Monument supposedly appears and they 'win' the race and leave without the Monument ever appearing. Why make a point of the Monument being the finish line if neither of the winners actually gets to it?!

We are told this planet was used by the Stenzor to get a planet load of scientists to invent weapons and stuff. So we have a lot of scientists on a planet with a mystery monument that phases in and out of reality- and no one was curious? No one researched it? It's in the middle of nowhere yet its been there long enough to become a famous mysterious landmark- why are there not buildings around it? At least a research lab? Something?

The air is toxic- so why doesn't it have the slightest effect on any of them the entire episode?

The Doctor gives her big anti-gun speech to Ryan (to add to last weeks anti-knife moralising!) but he was shooting robots, and the gun only stunned them- the Doctors  non-gun solution (after letting Ryan risk his life for no reason other than as an excuse for the Doctor to angry ask if guns have made the situation worse) is to create a emp bomb and stun them all! What's the difference? Its just using a different weapon to do the same thing, only she stuns them for longer than the gun did.

Why was the TARDIS there? Why did it explode in the first place? Why did it throw the Doctor out? (in interviews Chibnal referred to it as the TARDIS 'shaking her out') are these yet to be resolved plot points or just to be forgotten about?

The Doctor when she gives up says they will all be dead in another cycle- why? What is she basing this on? They've been there two already and are fine. She still has her sonic, why isn't she using it to locate the TARDIS, or where its being phasing in and out, she is ona planet full of old scientific equipment and she is the Doctor, why is she not immediately devising several backup plans to build a means of escape, or of purifying the water, or signalling off-world?- all of which the Doctor has done before in far worse predicaments- why does she give up at the first major stumbling block? What happened to the Doctors promise- Never give in, never give up- she does both first chance she gets!
}}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:44 am

{{9 ways I think this episode could have been done better-


Spoiler:

1. Have a third pilot in the race- totally alien from the other two in appearance, amphibious species, and with untranslatable language.

2. No handy universal translators just there already implanted- at the start only the Doctor should be able to understand the pilots, increasing the tension, especially for Grahame and Ryan.

3. Instead of just telling us the water is full of flesh eating microbes have the weird alien when they are all trying to fix the boat decide to just swim to get there ahead of them- it is a race after all! And that's how they find out the water is deadly. Show don't tell!

4. When they get to the scientific lab the Doctor can then find and reactivate old tech as universal translators. Showing the Doctor actually doing something useful at the lab and building on her handy at building thing aspect from episode one. The robot guards can still be here- only no Call of Duty Ryan scene, after the Doctor EMP's them Ryan wants to take one of their guns (which would be smaller hand guns not HALO rifles) the Doctor tells him she doesn't like guns they always make things worse. But he sneaks one away with him anyway.

5. Instead of discovering the entire past of the planet and what happened to it written on the floor as exposition they should discover weird anomalies, and experiments that had been conducted on the Ghost Monument. The conclusion of which should be that the desolation was caused by the experiments conducted on the phasing TARDIS in an attempt to either capture the object, or harness the incredible energy it must be burning up to phase in and out and weaponise it.
The experiments unleashed energies they could not control and was responsible for throwing the planet from its orbit, wiping out all life and turning it into a desert world- explaining that plot point.

6. The planet was then quarantined and forbidden and the race is revealed to be the only exception due to its illegality. Spilt these discoveries by splitting the lab location into two- one lab the one we see in the episode- here they'd encounter the robot guards and get the translators implanted and find out they were experimenting on the Ghost Monument at a second lab at the Monument site-  the other lab is where the experiments on the phasing TARDIS were conducted- here you can have the Doctor have a weird time/psychic wibble when prodding an experiment to see what it does- and use that if they want to insert their 'timeless child' series arc, rather than convenient psychic bandages that turn up give their exposition and are never seen or are a threat again.
And the Doctor should not make all the discoveries, have Yaz piece together some evidence in the labs, she has nothing to do and she is supposed to be police trained.
The upshot however is that the planet being desolate is all because of the TARDIS, its the Doctors fault giving Jodie some actual dramatic meat to work with and a very serious problem to solve- that she inadvertently has wiped out almost all life on this planet.
Its also at this point they should first notice difficulty breathing and blisters appearing on their skin from the toxic atmosphere, increasing the need to reach the TARDIS quickly and making the planet a threat- Grahame in particular should be suffering most as the oldest and the need for water on a planet with three suns mentioned.

7. When guy who runs the race appears the second time the Doctor calls him out on knowing a perception filter when she sees one and sonics his away to reveal the face of a Stenzar- this should be the reveal of their involvement, not in the middle, this race was set up by the Stenzar and bad pilot is actually bad, and is working for a bigger prize and tells the Doctor he told her never to trust anyone, and he is with the Stenzar who think they have found a way to materialise the TARDIS and given him a device to put on it when it phases in to do so, as the race is the only way to get someone to it.

8. Bad pilot tries to get to the TARDIS as it begins to materialise with the device, the others try to stop them but he snatches the concealed gun Ryan had and shoots the good pilot with it killing her, giving a furious angry Doctor the chance to point out why guns only make things worse and for Ryan to be guilt struck by the death (and giving Jodie a chance to express the Doctors flashes of anger for the first time and exasperation with stupid apes). By this point everyone is suffering badly from the effects of the planets toxic atmosphere.

9. The materialising TARDIS causes earth tremors and bad pilot falls with the device off the edge and onto a slowly sinking into the deadly water scrap of land.  The Doctor has to convince him to trust her, that she has a better idea, she can not only save him but put everything right- she needs the others to help and they work together to reach and get him out before it sinks- the Doctor uses the device after making some sonic screwdriver alterations to it to make the TARDIS materialise- but long in the past- using your enemies strength against them, classic Doctor stuff- thus the calamity never happened, their blistered skin is gone, the perception filter took care no one noticed the TARDIS, and now she is still standing right there in front of them waiting in the midst of a forest (the one from Jodies announcement trailer where she finds the TARDIS just as a little nod), the planet restored to life, the Doctor saves the day. And as the race now never happened the two pilots fade out and return to their lives, the dead good pilot thus restored by the changing timeline relieving Ryan of the guilt of her death, but leaving the lesson about guns making things worse.  And new audience members get a chance to have the perception filter explained as a bonus. And then we get our TARDIS interior reveal and off they go on the next adventure.}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:38 pm

...or you could send them a script and get them to do something interesting for a change.. Very Happy

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Re: All New Who

Post by Amarië on Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:40 pm

Now there's a thought worth exploring!

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Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:48 pm

Agreed ! you've proved you have writing skills, look at the stories you've posted. They have had it all, comedy, realism, drama etc, What have you to lose ? Might open a new door ? Anything in life is open for anyone to do, just push open the door, it might lead to a Summer garden

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:30 pm

I haven't watched either of the new episodes yet...and I don't have any real desire to.

Can't say you guys are making a good case for Series 11, box ticking blandness it seems...

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:56 pm

{{Well dont let my opinion put you off watching them Malick- it might just be me, certainly Jodies performance and the first two episodes are getting plaudits aplenty elsewhere even if I cant quite understand why. And besides I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. }}

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:03 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Well dont let my opinion put you off watching them Malick- it might just be me, certainly Jodies performance and the first two episodes are getting plaudits aplenty elsewhere even if I cant quite understand why. And besides I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. }}

eh, I don't really have the time or desire to watch them at the moment, my parents still have them recorded on their digibox and they seemed to enjoy both quite a bit (they both really liked Capaldi as the Doctor, but didn't watch much of the matt smith episodes and grew a tad bored with Tennant, both enjoy Who and I think watched it in their childhood, but are casual viewers at best, though the back to basics approach seems to have gained increased interest from them) may give it a go, but later rather than sooner.

My opinions on Chibnall and the apparent tone of the new series seem to line up with your more or less anyway.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Amarië on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:21 pm

Just watched it. Nothing wrong with Jodi, she's doing well with what she's got to work with. She's great when she's given the chance.

The writing needs to grow up.

Helen Mirren? Really? I love her, but not for this.

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