All New Who

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:49 pm

Having written several Dr Who episodes in the past plus head writer for Torchwood for 2 seasons, his credentials are fairly impeccable- Halfy

{{I cant comment on his Broadchurch stuff as I have never seen it- but his Who episodes prior to taking over, well not exactly bad they were all considered in general by fandom as, ok. Chibbers was the safe pair of hands you went for when you needed a filler episode of bog-standard uncomplicated box-ticking Who- which is why a lot of folk have been uncertain of him since the beginning of him getting showrunner. It wasn't clear cut like with Moffat, who out of all the hired writers in RTD era stood out as having a huge hit episode with every episode he wrote- Chibnals track record on Who was never that- he was the meh, was ok guy- nobody would think to put 42 or Hungry Earth up for an award, they never turn up in those top twenty best episodes of Who lists.

And Torchwood got a very mixed reception- particularly its first two series when it struggled badly to find its tone and feet, and when Chibnal did all his writing for it. And he wasn't exactly head writer, not like on Who, RTD and Julie Gardener were the actual show-runners for Torchwood and its creators, same team as did NuWho series 1-4, the show was RTD's baby and RTD was still there to the end of series 4. And it was never as big or as popular as Who's (and RTD's) other spin off show of the time the Sarah Jane Adventures aimed at the younger audience of Who.
Chibbers was also responsible for writing the Cyberwoman episode Mad Generally considered one of the worst episodes of anything Who related n TV.



Torchwood did ok as a spin-off show ratings and popularity wise, fluctuating pretty wildly though in tone and quality and press reaction episode to episode, but it was not until series 3 it really got broad fan and press praise - the mini-series Children of Earth- which was the first one Chibnal had nothing to do with and was written by RTD.

So whilst certainly Chibbers has a track record- not sure Halfy I'd use the word 'impeccable' to describe it so much as his record is just, there.}}


Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:23 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:14 pm

{{The Radio Times review doesn't hold its punches!-}}

'The Tsuranga Conundrum is just like a trip to A&E. I was rushed in, struggled to remain conscious while an unpleasant lump was removed, was only partly reassured by a junior doctor, and I’m now so relieved it’s all over and hope never to return.'- RT

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:39 pm

This episode didn't work as sci-fi and it didn't work as character led soap opera, it just felt like a bunch of the most boring bland clichés thrown together. it was phoned in. There was a lot of standing around spouting tedious family relations stuff, lots of running down corridors, and lots of bland dialogue with some badly dressed girl who calls herself The Doctor but really isn't.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:50 pm

it was phoned in.- Figg

{{Completely agree Figg- and that's hugely worrying only 5 episodes in to his era. As I said before both RTD and Moffat when they finally got the chance to take over were bursting with ideas and stories they had wanted to tell for years, sometimes for decades. How can Chibnal be out of good stories he wants to tell as soon as he starts?!

And if the rumours in the press of no Xmas day episode, still not shot down by the BBC, are true then the official reason is that Chibbers has 'run out of ideas for xmas episodes' even though he has never actually written one yet!!! But on the basis of the tits-up conundrum I can actually believe he has run out of ideas - there isn't a single good solid idea in this entire episode Mad }}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:53 pm

I miss the tingle down the spine Bad Wolf music, I miss characters like Donna, I  miss feeling excited to sit down and watch the opening credits.  Crying or Very sad I wanted to like the new Doctor and I had an open mind, but for me the magic is gone. Hopefully Chibnal and 13 will be one season only. The cowardice of the BBC is weird when you think of all the talent that's out there. They need to stop with the pc pandering and just make exciting sci-fi stories.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:11 am

{{The BBC have always been weird about anything sci-fi Figg- they never like it, look down their noses at it and never treat it well.
If any other network had a hit show on their hands with the global market of Who (the top exported tv show from the UK- bigger than all Cowells talent shows, or Downton, or Black Mirror- Who leads the pack) you would expect the BBC to take care of it- but no first they cant find a showrunner for it, then when they do they cant get him place in time causing an stillentire year of no Who bar a xmas special, then the BBC arent ready with the new team in time to take over even then, so Moffat has to come back, again, and do series 10, then there isn't going to be a xmas episode so Moffat has to rewrite the end of his run to write it too, and now we hear Chibbers isn't bothering with a xmas day episode anyway, something the BBC must have known when Moffat came back to do last years at a pinch (and with only a couple of weeks to write it in they messed it up so bad). And strongly rumoured now that there will be no Who next year either as the BBC have screwed up the production times of it and it won't start filming now early enough in the year for an autumn 2019 broadcast, so it'll probably be 2020.

But then was same with stuff like Red Dwarf- found they had a hit on their hands but the BBC snobs hated it- now its made and shown on Dave because the BBC hated it so much they just stopped making it, even when its was just as popular. And when it was at its height of popularity on the BBC they never funded it, they stuck it on at weird times and on their b channels. They hate scifi.
Ive long been of the opinion the BBC actually hate having Who as their flagship program, they are embarrassed to be represented by sci-fi. Always have been. }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:25 pm

I don't think they hate it but they don't seem to want to nurture its heritage, and the producers seem to have a stranglehold over the writing. maybe that's down to the clubby atmosphere where only those in the boys club are allowed the power to experiment. obviously RTD, Moffat and Gatiss were in the club but loved Who so good things happened, but Chibnal doesn't seem the right man for the job and he seems to want to write lots of episodes instead of asking actual sci-fi/fantasy writers. Neil Gaiman said he really regretted one of his episodes because of outside interference watering down his vision, so people like that are reluctant to write for Who which is a shame. Chibnal seems like a second rate Gatiss at the moment.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:40 pm

{{Regards Gaiman that was Nightmare in Silver he was on about- and I think he understood why it happened, it was more one of those things due to production and mainly was around the fact he wrote a story for Victorian Clara and her two wards that then had to be hastily rewritten when the BBC higher ups insisted the companion be contemporary not historical. He did say after that he really wanted to write for 12, and having not been able to due other commitments (American Gods mainly) regrets he never got the chance- so I'm sure he would still jump at the chance to write more Who- if he can ever fit it in again and if he is asked. And his first episode- The Doctors Wife was very well received and is a bit of a fan favourite.

I think Chibbers deciding to write 4 of the first 5 episodes plus co-write the other one was a mistake, but then I would have assumed he would have come in with a plan for those episodes and lots of ideas for them, which he doesn't seem to have had at all going on the evidence so far.
And there were other quality Who writers already on the books he could have called on- Jamie Maitheson who wrote Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatline, Tom Macrae who wrote the Girl Who Waited, Toby Whitehouse who wrote quite a few over the years, he could even have brought back Robert Shearman who wrote Dalek or Paul Cornall who gave us Family of Blood, not to mention the cream of the BF writers- there are plenty of writers out there who know how to write the Doctor and could have helped here- presumably they are all too white and male for the new writing team though, experience be damned.  Mad }}

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Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:30 pm


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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:45 pm

Talking of Flatline, they had a great actor playing Rigsy, if they were going down the diversity route why didn't they ask him back instead of the wooden and utterly dull Ryan? Rigsy brought a fresh new look to the show, he was likeable and cool. Its a pity he was not asked to be a companion.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:20 am

{{ I like Ryan and Grahame the most so far out of the 'friends'. But in both cases they are beginning to seem a bit thin.
I had thought Ryan was going to be something of a throw back to classic companion Jamie- not the smartest guy ever, but loyal and utterly believing in the Doctor in similar fashion as Sam does Frodo. But he is turning out to be a bit of a 3-note character- he is a bit dim but well intentioned, he has his illness, and he has Dad issues.
Each episode is one or a combination of those things that get highlighted- and by highlighted I mean we get some exposition dump about.

Grahame also is starting to look 3- note- he is grumpy-ish, he mourns his wife's death and misses her, he is the comic relief.

Yaz isn't even a 1-note character, I could say she is a police officer, but as it never come sup even when people wave illegal guns about the place so it doesn't really count, her character so far is - she is there.

Nothing wrong with them having traits, problem is they have to do stuff in-between bringing them up, and they dont.

Next two episodes  offer equal measures of hope and disaster potentially- good news is new writers, not Chibnall, downside is they are both potentially pc minefields-
Spoiler:
next episode is the India/Pakistan one with Yaz meeting her grandmother, or great grandmother (so they have to give Yaz some sort of personality for this one surely!), and the episode after that is set around the time of King James VI, and witch trials, so expect to see innocent women, Doctor included be threatened with a hot poker and a fiery demise amidst a misogynistic society of Kings and Bishops!
}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:28 pm

Rolling Eyes its getting to the point where I might not bother watching any more until Chibnal and Jodie tootle off to the timey-wimey dustbin of history. This could seriously hurt Jodie's future career if she is tied to a flop, she might decide to hand in her sonic. well I hope so, bored of her already. its nothing to do with the woman thing, its she just cant portray the Doctor. I would have preferred Lesley Sharp or Suranne Jones, they could have worked with the dull dialogue and made something of it. People can see they are being force-fed pc bollox and are getting irritated by it, if Chibnal really had to insist on pc bollox he should have been slightly more subtle and not banged on about it. I haven't liked one episode so far, not even Rosa although a lot of people think it was 'worthy' I didn't, I thought it was patronising and bland.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:07 pm

{{Ill give it to the end of this series and take an overview- its pretty bad at the halfway point- but then its been all Chibnal to the halfway point- hoping at least one of the new writers is up to the job and can write a plot, and character development that doesn't rely on exposition, and can write the Doctor properly, and above all we need a villain of worth.
Tom Baker once said the villains were the most important aspect of Who, as they defined the Doctor in adversity. 13 has had no adversity of note and so lacks any definition of character. She needs better opponents, with actual character, motivations, and clever plans to unmask. Not one-note foes with simplistic basic motivations like space-racist and nibbler from Futurama.  }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:45 pm

This is like the Eurovision Song contest. cheesy, sometimes over the top but, you keep watching just to see how bad it can get. that's what I shall do. Ive given up thinking this is Dr Who, its not. Its a spin off or a rival sci-fi. Ive been watching "Lost in Space" on the Horror Channel & that's far better than Dr who is. Even the music is better. All the work gone into the sets as well, tho a bit corny, is still better than this load of crap. I haven't seen the Tardis yet, Im in for a treat eh Smile mind you, ive only seen last weeks episode. Looking forward to seeing the Tardis, how bad have they cocked that one up ?
Answers on a postcard please.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:09 pm

I quite like the design for the TARDIS, that's one thing I wasn't disappointed with, it looks organic like coral at the bottom of the Barrier Reef.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:25 pm

{{I am not sold- and one thing I noticed was because the pillars around the on console are so close to it and so chunky, when you have shots of the Doctor and all the companions at the console, as there 3 of them, plus Doctor and always a pillar in the way, they have to clump all the companions together in frame bewtween pillars to get them in the shot- making it look small and cramped when it should be big. }}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:10 pm

They always stand behind her in a straight line, so that could be a problem.

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Re: All New Who

Post by halfwise on Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:24 am

I had to go look it up. very strange, like something out of Alien almost. I can see changing it up, but this is too organic.

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Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:18 pm

I haven't seen the inside yet but, that was always the main recurring theme, that the inside always wowed people. They always said " its bigger on the inside". It was always unimaginable & it was said to the point of being boring. Something else the Beeb has fecked up ? This is sounding more & more like a Pantomime that's gone very very wrong.

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Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan on Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:09 pm

so series 11 is a bit shit and/or bland?

I don't feel like I'm missing out on much Laughing No

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:52 pm

{{ I wouldn't say so Malick- but others outside this forum seem to be lapping it up as great, I have no idea why as it flaws seem many and blatant to me Shrugging
But hey, give an episode a go Malick and see what you make of it, always best to check these things out for yourself I reckon, even though I dont expect you to be persuaded by the show at the moment. And at least tonight's is not written by Chibnall }} }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:03 pm

That was not Doctor Who. It was Eastenders in a field.

With two seconds of sci-fi thrown in because its ..er....supposed to be sci-fi. :facepalm:

On the plus-side, nice bit of teal/orange going on, flowery fields and the music wasn't bad.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:15 pm

{{{Oh my, what a difference not letting Chibbers write something can make!!!

First impressions as usual and spoiler filled-


Spoiler:

Whilst by no means a flawless episode, and I will get to the flaws, I am going to start with the good, because this weeks episode features- taa-daah- an actual plot! With secondary characters who serve a purpose and a function in that plot, whilst being well drawn and realised.  Shocked (How did Chibbers read this episode and not think, 'maybe those first 5 of mine need another look').


Anyhow the plot, of which as I mentioned, there actually is one- Yaz wants to go back and see her Nan, Umbrine, on her wedding day, her Nan has informed us that she was the first Muslim woman married in Pakistan, and she has given out, on her birthday, presents to her granddaughters, including Yaz who gets an old 40's style vbroken wrist watch- the story of which Umbrine is reluctant to tell.

Initially not keen on the idea, the Doctor doesn't want to give into Yaz desire to visit her own families past, but the companions convince her to go for an hour, and so they do.

Taking them to India on the eve of Partition with Pakistan, and the rising tensions.

But not, as expected upon  a city as Yaz's gran had said, but on a rural farm, here her Nan his about to get married to someone who is not Yaz' grandfather, a man called Prem.

Meanwhile psychic powerful aliens are popping about in the woods, and apparently have killed a Holy Man who was coming to officiate at the wedding.

In terms of characters alongside the usual crew and Umbrine, we have the mother of the bride, the groom Prem and his brother, Manish. They are Indian, and Hindi, Umbrine is Muslim. And on the eve of their wedding, partition happens.

And the conflict between brothers arises, whilst Prem was away fighting for the British, Manish has been radicalised by pamphlets and radio broadcasts and is firmly in the India for Hindus cam, Muslims in Pakistan, and therefore strongly disapproves of his brothers upcoming marriage.

The appearance of the seeming demons and the death of the Holy Man further convinces the mother of the bride that the Indians family is cursed, and so is the wedding.
But Umbrne is determined to go ahead with it and so is Prem.

And that's your set up- aliens in the wrong place at the wrong time seemingly killing folk, and a Umbrine marrying someone who isn't Yaz's grandfather, in seemingly the wrong place- so either she lied about her marriage, she kept this marriage a secret, or it shouldn't be happening at all.

And that is you set up. Which brings me onto setting.

The big fear going into this base on Chibnalls writing so far was that it could be horribly pc- a lot of white colonialism is bad isn't it, and simplified twirly moustached villain Englishmen.
What makes this work is they went the opposite route here, this is a story about partition told solely from the perspective of a couple of small farm landowners, neighbours for generations despite being muslim and hindu, who have helped each others families for generations, and whose entire existence and lives has just been altered forever by a distant, tinny voice on a radio in a big empty barn in the middle of nowhere.
It is far more powerful  way to show the effect of these distant decisions than to show us the makers of the decisions as simplified figures.

And whilst he device of the brothers having opposing views is hardly new it is played out well, doing enough to humanise the ideals and opposing views that were about to lead to the deaths of so many and the mass forced movement of a people as well as showing a sympathetic view of radicalisation in that Manish fought himself when very young still in the war and killed. His views that India should now be for muslims only, and Hindus can have pakistan, and that way they can both feel safe has an internal logic to it with his character that provide a motivation that is both informative in its historical setting, and effective as an emotional story telling device. Its also something every other episode so far has been lacking in any protagonist, a well realised motivation played out over the entire course of an episode.

The final third, Manish calls in the muslim only militia, and Prem gets killed after a failure to reconcile moment with his brother as TARDIS Team turn and walk away to the sound of the gunshot that kills Prem, and the aliens witness and preserve his memory are very powerful finale, not shying away form the horrors that are only just beginning in these first acts of brutality, but also from the natural ending of the story.
Umrine gets away with the women, Prem having given them the time to escape, and Umbrine goes on to remarry and live the life Yaz knows, moving to Sheffield, England to flee the troubles.

We do get a final scene between Yaz and Nan and it felt a little odd to me. In the opening scene I felt when Nan had said Yaz was her favourite, it would come back up why, that she remembered her from the wedding, given she not only looks exactly the same, she is dressed in those exact clothes. Yet it doesn't. It made the final scene between them seem strangely pointless for me.

There are also some very good performances in this one, Grahame is the stand out again, bringing a degree of emotionality to his performance that gives a real weight (this does unfortunately underline that its something Jodie has yet to display, even if this is her best outing yet)

Ryan I like when he is written this way, he is kind of a loyal, happy dog, just pleased to be with the Doctor on the adventure, and pretty much up for it, also ready to go for a walk as it were.

Yaz, she is still a bit of canvas waiting to be filled, but we do get a bit of colour in her now at least. She is the pivot around which the plot revolves and gets some good scenes at the start and, incredibly after six episodes, her first scene with just Graham, and its a good one, bar a bit of stumbling dialogue in the middle.
And she gets a conflict, though because of how the plot goes it doesn't go to far, but her nan is seemingly marrying another man than she told her family of, and to begin with she is reluctant for this wedding to go ahead at all, thinking it might be wrong. But she does fade out a bit again toward the latter half as the focus switches more to the Doctor. And six episodes in, even after this one, I would still struggle to list Yaz's character traits and personality.

And the Doctor, well this is the best writing of a Doctor we have had this series by a country mile, not flawless, not quite there for me yet, but its strides along the road compared to what she has been given before whilst falling short of what she needs (Ill come to that later).

As the Doctor she pretty much does everything that is Doctory, she takes charge in situations without seeming to try, she comes with sciencey solutions to problems and she investigates and interrogates. She officiates at the wedding, she makes some actually humorous comments this week that seem like 13th Doctor comments, not borrowed 10th and 11th Doctor lines. And for the most part the few references to her being female not male are handled well and nicely nod backwards in a way that feels more connecting to previous Doctors than the lack of connections to previous we have had so far this series, or as gender commentary.
And she gets to make a big Doctor speech at the wedding about the power of love basically in the face of unseemingly bad odds.

But of all of it its the speech that I felt was not as strong as it should be in terms of its delivery. It wasn't bad and quite possibly given she is following one of the best speech giving Doctors in the shows history it was always going to be hard to follow up in the big speech department, but it felt somehow slightly lacking for me, like she was trying a little to hard, I'm not sure, but it didn't quite hit for me the note I felt the writing was reaching for.

Another problem is that when 9, 10, 11, or 12 gave a speech about love, or kindness, it was not all they did. 13 has been nice, kind, giving us warnings about knives, guns, the rights of living things in every episode, and without a good villain to test her moral compass nothing but keen and nice- so it feels more of the same, there is nothing so far to contrast it against in her character, its just more 13 being nice again. Which I think takes away from its effect.

In the good section the cinematography has to go, and thankfully for once the direction and editing, both of which fully support the scenes and emotions well. This was quite frankly, despite the expensive new look of the show, in terms of direction, the first time I felt I wasn't watching something shot by someone who normally directs causality or the Bill.
Also the score, which uses sounds native to the area, its a little overblown in the first few scenes in India, but it soon settles into creating a very suitable atmosphere and ambience. Easily my favourite soundtrack to an episode this series.


So its got a plot, characters setting, well shot and edited, so why is not quite a classic?

Well I suspect the answer lies in 2 things- Chibbers, and it should have been 2 parts. And they are probably connected.

There are some stand out moments of crabbit inducing groan and they are all the same- the opening scene at Nans birthday, the post death who the hell was he over the Holy Mans death, the alien assassins reveal of what they are up to scene.
And what makes them the same is they are all hasty exposition info dumps.

The first one gets a partial pass, as while it does just have Nan dump a bunch of her past  in a slightly awkward forced manner (not the performance the writing) it is only partly true and serves a plot of function of setting up a mystery for Yaz to be intrigued by. But its still an exposition dump when you come in cold, and certainly made me fear the worst.
The Holy Man I feel they should have encountered first in the woods before the cart, giving us time to get to know him, who he is, why he is there, before he dies, rather than all that information coming in yet another info dump, after he is dead.
And the aliens, well they basically reveal not only that they arent bad guys at all, but witnesses to those who die alone, and didn't kill anyone, Manish did to stop the wedding and because the holy man was going to sully himself by marrying a hindu and muslim in Manish's eyes.
And they also reveal Prem will die on his wedding day, they cant do anything about it, that's just when he dies, but they will witness his death and preserve his memory in their huge shrine/computer thingy. And they explain why they do this by basically giving you a history of their entire bloody civilisation.
That's a lot to reveal in one massive exposition dump with nothing but some holographic displays for accompaniment.

And what all these scenes seem to have in common to me is the hand of exposition happy Chibbers, turning a story that was too long for his 1 part only philosophy to fit, into 1 episode by simply cutting stuff out and putting it all into exposition instead to save time.
And the other thing all these scenes have in common is they are stand out the worst scenes in the episode.

But the rest is good, at times very good. I would even go as far as to say as a historical based episode it is one of the best in NuWHO.

But I obviously cant finish on a non-crabbit note- so some problems from biggest to smallest-

if all the aliens were going to do was explain they were basically passive and doing a nice thing, why all the shenanigans, as soon as the Doctor soniced them for a reading at the start they must known she was a time traveller- if all they were going to do upon meeting her face to face was explain themselves, why not do that immediately? Or when they found them witnessing the Holy Mans death? There isn't really a reason why not.

With the aliens being basically not the villains, the demons being what people can do, ordinary people when they become a mob, it again leaves the Doctor without a villain to be tested against- she really needs a meaty, complex opponent with depth of character, motivations and a sense of real threat. Someone to get personal with. Six episodes in this still hasn't happened yet and she is not being clearly defined in adversity as she should, and as all her predecessors had been by this point going back to the very first, who met the daleks in is second story.

When the Doctor is explaining how the TARDIS can extrapolate a date and time from the watch- that's all we need to know- do not give us 2 minutes of techno babble trying to explain in some scientific sounding way how the TARDIS does things- this is not ST, its a magic fucking box- we all know that. Its science beyond human comprehension, we dont need to know how it does stuff, just that it does stuff. Do whatever one else does- say something like' if i take this watch and just plug it into the TARDIS telepathic circuits, we'll see what happens!" and get on with the story!
From the start the TARDIS was always downplayed, thats why in over 50 years we've barely seen anything of all the other rooms in her and rumoured things, it keeps it a mystery, saves in budget, and more importantly keeps her function in the story in place- a magic box to get the characters to where the next adventure begins. The TARDIS works on plot convenience, always has, thats her purpose in the story- leave it at that dont waste time on technobabble about her.

The Doctor saying when getting the wedding tattoos that it never happened before when she was a man- given al the tribes, human and alien the doctor has spent time with, all the weddings and ceremonies he has attended throughout time and space I find that rather unlikely! And in fact I am pretty sure I can remember at least the 4th Doctor with some tribal style painting on him.


 A turn around in writing quality with Chibbers out the way, marred only by a few plot gripes, awkward dialogue delivery in a couple scenes, and the suspiciously Chibbers like exposition scenes creeping in to mar proceedings- and Graham still giving me more emotional chills in his performance than 13 in her speech. And still no villain for 13 to be tested against.


But those things not withstanding a marked improvement, for me this is the point where the 13th Doctor actually feels like she could actually really be a Doctor after all that isn't just bits of her three NUwho predecessors in a blender but her own incarnation.
Vinay Patel you come back and write again I think!

Im going to give this one a welcome surprise 8 out of 10.  }}}

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Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:06 pm

Shocked While it was an improvement it wasn't Doctor Who. It was family drama with a historical/political/religious background. It was about lurve with two seconds of aliens. It looked good and Bradley did a good wobbly lip, but that's it.

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Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:30 pm

{{Its not something style wise thats been done in NUWHo, but it is similar in some respects to some classic historicals, but more than them it made me think of some BF style stories in its presentation and setting. I could imagine listening to the 8th Doctor in this one- so for me it didn't feel out of place, despite it being a style NuWho hasn't really tackled.


Spoiler:

And I felt the background was well integrated into the plot for the most part in a fairly natural way, it was about greater events overwhelming them. I thought the British got fair blame for essentially cutting and running, and this was nicely emphasised by the British only being present as a distant voice on a radio slicing up the country. It gave that sense of a retreating British power leaving chaos in its wake. And it didn't shy from the fact that the carnage that followed was not British against anyone, it was Muslim against Hindu. And again using the brothers and the marriage across religious divides, whilst hardly new, to humanise the conflict is well realised and written.

The fact it has a plot and characters that effect it and are part of it is a step up in its own right. But like Rosa I feel when the aliens in the piece are as insignificant as they are in the end here and in Rosa, they would be better going the whole hog and having a pure, non-alien, monster of the week, historical in the fashion of the early 1st Doctor ones. In both this and Rosa they dont really add much to proceedings and kind of feel shoved in there just to have an alien presence and the time saved by removing them could be better used.
If all you've time for is either a one note motivated villain like he is racist, or an alien that requires an entire scene of nothing but exposition to explain their presence, plan, motivation and reason in one big dump, then maybe dont bother with them is a better solution
.}}}

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