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Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:20 am

mini-rant  Mad

Spoiler:
Is the conflict between Hindu and Muslim during Partition really best told in an episode of Doctor Who? I think that its turning into a show that I don't recognize, its all about the 'Bad White Man' fucking up peoples lives. I am really sick of it and it makes me feel its just one long preaching about Black people and Asians being victims of Bad White Man, theres quite enough victim mentality going around without this shite. Rosa Parks and Partition deserve more respect than being exploited to tell a half-baked sci-fi story. Its fucking insulting

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:36 am

Spoiler:

Is the conflict between Hindu and Muslim during Partition really best told in an episode of Doctor Who?- Figg

{{ Is Nero and the burning of Rome? Were the Aztecs and human sacrifice? And they were pure historicals for the 1st Doctor with no alien component at all.
There is a blatant reference to, and the aftermath of, on a near catatonic woman of a Viking gang rape in the 1st Doctor story the Time Meddler, yes its implied but clearly enough for any adult viewer to know what's just happened to her.
Who can, and has gone to some very different places in its time of story telling.

I have said before that personally I prefer my political commentary presented in allegory when it comes to Who, not just straight up. The same tale told on an alien world would have all the same moral messaging without the need to make it politicised in direct terms in reference to our real world.

But it can be done, Family of Blood successfully mixed the growing dark reality of the dawning of WW1 and touched on class and racism in a manner that was realistic for its time period. And it has the scene with the school boys shooting the scarecrow things with rifles, tears rolling down their faces as they do so whilst the soundtrack is the school boys choir singing a choral hymn. And has the following exchage between the Family member Baines and the school headmaster-

BAINES: All your little tin soldiers. But tell me, sir, will they thank you?
ROCASTLE: I don't understand.
BAINES: What do you know of history, sir? What do you know of next year?
ROCASTLE: You're not making sense, Baines.
BAINES: 1914, sir. Because the Family has travelled far and wide looking for Mister Smith and, oh, the things we have seen. War is coming. In foreign fields, war of the whole wide world, with all your boys falling down in the mud. Do you think they will thank the man who taught them it was glorious?
ROCASTLE: Don't you forget, boy, I've been a soldier. I was in South Africa. I used my dead mates for sandbags. I fought with the butt of my rifle when the bullets ran out, and I would go back there tomorrow for King and Country!


One could well ask if children being taught to shoot and kill in the name of King and Country on the eve of the most horrendous war in history in which almost all of those boys will be dead in a year, is suitable Who material.
I have to answer yes to that, and therefore so is this episode.

A historical episode of this tone I would not want every time, there should still be time for the more fun variety like meeting Dickens, or Shakespeare, or Agatha Christie, or even Robin Hood. But if there is room in Who for fun historical romps, there must be room in it too for more reflective, sober takes on historical periods too.
There has been in the shows past, and there has been in secondary medium like books and Big Finish throughout.

And whilst this is not a pure historical, the aliens are the weakest part again. The actual history narrative I did not find much issue with outside the points I mentioned.

'its all about the 'Bad White Man' fucking up peoples lives.'

I did not get that impression from this episode. Others yes this one no and it was what I feared most going in. It would have been all to easy to have some British period character present being over the top sneering and villainous but there isn't a single British character in it from that time period- the entire story is told from the point of view of two rural farming families who are neighbours, and whose land happens to be right where the new border goes.
And the enemy, Manish, is a young man who has been radicalised, not by evil white men, but by his fellow Indians into a belief that it is best if Hindus claim India for themselves and Muslims all get moved to Pakistan. And if that requires force to achieve then so be it. At no point in this one did I get a sense of blame for it being attributed to any one source.
The British authorities only appear in the episode as a distant voice on the radio making announcements that will change their lives. And there is some blame apportioned by some characters for this carving up of the country and just leaving- but the mass murder, chaos and massed forced movement of millions that followed was not the British, and so they are not in this episode as its villains. It is a Hindu gang of militia that turn up to threaten them, not the British. Fault seems ascribed appropriately to me for the British part in leading up to these event, but its not the story this is telling so not the focus of it.

'a half-baked sci-fi story'

I don't disagree with that- the sci-fi element was half-baked and it might have been better to have gone full traditional 1st Doctor and made it a pure historical with no alien presence, as the history side of the narrative and its characters stand up well on their own in my opinion without the alien plot and make for a solid story for the most part very well told.

"Its fucking insulting"

As I dont see the evidence in this one for being in any way attacking whites, or even really making direct comment on colonialism or empire, so I am not sure who it would be insulting.

As I said in my review I dont think its a classic, but it is a good solid historical Who episode for me, let down a little by a few issues, but with a Doctor written in a manner where I actually recognise this as a version of the Doctor, its own thing, 13, not a cobbled rehash of previous. And that's a huge step up for this series, given how little like the Doctor she has come across so far. And it has a proper plot, and secondary characters who are well fleshed out and realised, all have clear motivation for their actions, and all serve the plot- none of which has been true of the first 5 episodes under Chibbers. And that's a massive step up for me.
}}}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:35 pm

{{Well its still a Chibbers series episode so inevitably there has to be a -Things That Don't Make Sense - though fortunately for all involved its a short one this time!


Spoiler:

1. The Holy Man's death. If he was actually shot by Manish and not killed by the aliens, and they only witnessed his final moments dying alone, how the buggery did the super intelligent Doctor, who examined the body, not notice he had been killed by being shot with a rifle at point blank range? She also took sonic readings, how did it not show up?

2. If the aliens turn up throughout time and space to witness the final moments of those who die alone- but they can be seen by anyone whose about, such as when Prem saw them over his older brothers body in the war, then a) the person is not dying alone, and b) why hasn't the Doctor come across them before then? The Doctor is always turning up where lots of people are soon going to die alone. Yet Prem has seen them twice in the span of one human lifetime.

3. Really, as soon as the aliens knew the Doctor was not from that time period either, and as they had nothing to hide, why didn't they just transport her to their hive place and explain right at the start instead of waiting till she had broken in and nicked their most important sacred thing and entire purpose for being, then doing it anyway? Would they not have wanted to know who she was and why she was there and seemingly interested in them immediately?- I know the plot needs them not to, but it also doesn't provide a reason for why they don't. }}

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Post by azriel on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:01 pm

Ive read everyone's posts & I have to say I still think its shit, with a stonking big S. This is NOT Dr Who no matter how many allowances you make for it. This is not a NEW programme, its not finding its feet, its not something only just thought up by the BBC & trying it out to see if it will catch on, its been around for 50 years ! FIFTY not five or 5 minutes. So where the holy heck is the writing ? the creativity ? Down at Mc Donalds enjoying a quarter pounder ? I got more excited looking in a kids Happy Meal for the toy than this load of bollocks. I cant muster the energy to say how I felt or what I thought, I might later ? But, this dire load of tripe is the lowest Ive seen Dr Who sink. IL enjoy reading this thread but, until Dr Who regains its identity I will not watch this bilge any more.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:07 pm

rantlet  No

Spoiler:
Petty, taking a trip into the past and witnessing a historical event is not the problem is it. I enjoy Nero and Pompei, and I enjoyed Donna's excitement to be in ancient Rome, or Rose meeting Dickens, or Amy meeting Vincent. They were great episodes, they were thought provoking and fun, thrilling and moving. History is not the problem, in Pompei there are high stakes and thousands are killed, but its not political in an earthly sense, when Moffat and RTD got political as in the case of Obama it was roundly ridiculed. Its ok having historical political figures like Churchill but they are somehow in on the game, they know all about the Doctor, and in Queen Victoria's case learn to combat him. The real historical figures and the Doctor are not trying to solve WW2 or stop the Boer War, they are not trying to save Jewish people from Hitler, or stop the dropping of the nuclear bombs in Japan. Added to this Chibnal is on a one man politically correct mission, we know this, and that is what makes it so false and preachy. Got an Asian companion? whoohoo lets go to drop in on Partition, racism and colonialism is bad! what larks. I HATE THAT.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:14 pm

{{{ I wouldn't deny that this episode exists at all because of the obvious broader social/political agenda Chibbers has in mind for his version of Who. It fits right in with the rest of it, the difference I would say here is that at least its been done competently, which is a huge step up over what we have had so far. If they are determined to do this sort of pandering thing then it should be at least done well. If this episode was in any other series, not surrounded by the sort of pc claptrap it has been I think it would fare better. And if it wasn't about the 5th episode in a row where the villains
Spoiler:
arent really villains but mistaken for them, or just acting on instinct and the real villains are people.
Its Doctor Who- I want an evil space villain or a terrifying unnerving monster!!! }}}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:32 am

That's the root of the problem "villains are people" that's another show, its not Who, in Who villains are aliens, Chibers has tried to fiddle with the format of the show way too much.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:44 pm

{{ I wouldnt say its the root of the problem in Who terms, we have that sort of villain who arent really villains before- in fact we got them 7 episodes ago in Moffats last one!  Mad
Spoiler:

The assassin aliens- they travel time and space, witnessing the deaths of those who die alone in order to preserve their memory and honour their lives. And in Moffats we had the Testament, who travel space and time witnessing the deaths of people in order to preserve their memory and honour their lives.
Its the same plot! It even has the same beats-  they turn up, are seen around those about to die, are assumed to be baduns, Doctor learns a bit about them, enough to be misleading, confronts them, they reveal they are not bad after all.
Its beat for beat Moffats Twice Upon a Time from xmas- that was less than a year ago and they are already reccyling Moffats ideas!

But that aside- as the Moffat ep shows these sort of bad guys who really arent but you are led to believe are have been about before.
The problem with it here, and one reaosn I think had this episode ben in any other series it would have  done better, is thats pretty much all we've got this series
The only actual villain was Tooth-fairy in ep 1 and he's shit (but I fear his race are the series arc- all the planets we keep hearing about being destroyed- again v similar to RTD dropping all the planets going missing throughout series 4- does Chibbers have a plot device of his own? Mad ).

But in every other episode- bad guys 2 were psychic bandages and the bad things people do, ep 3 was a racist, ep incredibly Donald Trump, ep 5 was no villain at all just a wee space critter doing what it does, ep 6 no villain again back to the evil people do- theres nothing there for the Doctor to get her intellect or action into

Its fine to have one of these sort of episodes if they are the exception- 12's line upon discovering the plan of the Testament, "Well, I don't know what to do if it's not an evil plan" rather indicates the rarity of the situation for the Doctor- when they are the rule they start to lose all power and effect.
And worse, 13 has had no challenges- her companions never challenge or question her actions- they are  a cheerleading gang, there are no villains to challenge her or draw out her darker side (assuming this Doctor even has one) and there is nothing to make her doubt or question herself. In short 13 is a Doctor without any conflict- and that dramatically is fatal.

Drama needs conflict to work. It allows the viewer to see aspects of a character we otherwise would not- how they cope under pressure and adversity, how do they respond? with anger, with kindness, indifference, warmth, coldness? Of this Doctor- no idea, its never come up. 6 episodes in and she hasn't had a conflict to deal with worthy of the name. Two episodes out of the six by the nature of the story- Rosa and Demons, she is a bystander to events (and true of ep 2 as well to a large degree, all she does is get for A to B in that and get her TARDIS back- she doesn't actually have to overcome anything to do so, unless you count convincing arsehole bloke not be quite such an arsehole).

The problem for 13 is lack of definition brought on by a lack of any quality opposition to her, for anywhere. Without conflict its not only making her ill-defined, and becoming boring, it also means there is no real narrative worth caring about, there are no personal stakes for the 13th Doctor in any of this, so nor are there for the viewer in this Doctor. I cared abut the plight of the doomed married couple, I was troubled by the Muslim v Hindu aspect of Partition, and had I known less about Partition going in I would almost certainly have learned something about history too, and I was moved by the pointlessness of the final death and all those who would follow him in the aftermath of Partition -but I never once gave an emotional toss about the Doctor because she has nothing at stake in these stories and so for her character, nor do I.
}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:21 pm

{{Been a bit of fuss about viewing figures lately- the Sun and other tabloids delighting in the drop of about 2-3 million viewers since 13's debut- but actually I have to say this is normal- even happened from the off with Eccleston.

What is a little weird is those pointing out this in defence of the current run seem to be doing so by implying the current figures are in fact exceptionally good by Who standards. Which seemed off to me, so I took a look at the consolidated figures for episodes we have as opposed to overnights, which dont really count these days for as much and especially on a channel with no advertising.

So I took as a comparison Capaldi fifth episode and Jodies fifth, as thats the latest we have with a consolidated figure-

 The Caretaker (capaldi)- 6.99 million

Tsungra Conundrum (Jodie)- 7.49

So Jodie is doing fine viewing wise in comparison, and has kept hold of about half a million viewers off the back of the change of Doctor, new time slot and advertising. But given half a million viewers is well within Who's fluctuating weekly numbers its hardly doing as exceptionally well as its proponents are declaring. And bare in mind the Capaldi number does not include those watching on pc or tablets, as they have only begun including those in the official figures as of this series, so the difference between them in actuality is probably negligible if you could include them (assuming them to be about the current rate of half a million watching this way). So Jodie's run. Its doing fine. But that's all. }}

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Post by Forest Shepherd on Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:26 pm

Looks like I've got some catching-up to do.

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Post by malickfan on Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:42 pm

Still haven't watched any of S11 Cool

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:22 pm

{{Well its confirmed- no xmas special- there will be a New Years Day special instead- but for the first time in a decade no xmas special on xmas day. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:26 am

I am finding the companions are the worst I have ever seen and they have some stiff competition from Cougar Song, strip-a-gram Amy and needy Clara. This new lot are utter planks. I think Bradley Walsh has never had such bad writing to work with. He should have been a new Wilf.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:59 am

{{Well I'd obviously disagree about your choice of comparison, River is tons of fun, Amy is probably the most complex companion in the shows 56 year history (and despite your continued attempts to defame and sully the character by insisting she was in some fashion somehow immoral by being a strip-gram, she never was a stripogram, she was a kissogram which has the very big difference they dont take their clothes off or do erotic lap-dances and tend to turn up at offices, peoples work place and the like for birthdays- good old fashioned British fun Figg- surprised you'd find it offensive) and Clara I love with 12, they made a great team and had great chemistry.

Out of the current crop I like Grahame mainly for Bradley's performance, but the character is either comic relief or wise old man with words of wisdom. But he clearly has more to give from his acting, he obviously has the skills and has proved the only genuinely emotional scenes in this series for me, and there is at least a basis of a solid character in there if only they'd build on it.

Ryan depends on how he's written as it changes week to week, I like him when he's like last week, just out for adventure, trusting the Doctor and happy to go along with what comes up. When there focusing on his here today gone tomorrow illness, or his young man anger issues, or his Dad stuff I'm a lot less keen on him.

And Yaz, well I'm not warming to either character or actor sadly- the character is largely still a blank slate after 6 episodes, and we had 2 there were supposed to focus on her, last weeks and the weeks before, and we learnt next to nothing about her again, and the acting seem stiff to me and a bit amateur dramatics level.

So not my favourite crop of all time, no.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:08 pm

I knew you would react to the 'Poke-a-Petty' strip-a gram comment. Very Happy Just did it for old times sake, you know, when Who wasn't boring.

I personally think Ryan and Yaz have no right to be companions when you think in the past the Doctor has refused to travel with much more interesting and charismatic people. Even Ashildr was more of a candidate, the Doctor has refused a lot of people quite arbitrarily yet he she allows nondescript hangers-on. Does she ever actually talk to Ryan Yaz or Bradley one -to- one? or have a relationship with any of them beyond talking at them? Why does she ask them to accompany her exactly? is it because they are the first humans she meets, that doesn't seem like a good enough reason to me.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:51 pm

the Doctor has refused a lot of people quite arbitrarily yet he she allows nondescript hangers-on- Figg

{{There are basically two ways the Doctor gets companions- pure accident, or he picks them for some reason (usually because they display calm under pressure, show compassion unexpectedly or some such) in NUWho 9 met Rose by accident but it was how she responded under pressure that made him pick her out, the same is true of Martha, Donna was in the complete accident category as was Amy and Clara (well that was a set up by Missy , but the Doctor didn't know it), Bill the Doctor picked out because of how she responded to his lectures, and that she attended them at all despite the fact she only worked there and wasn't even a student and he had been tutoring her for best part of a year before she went in the TARDIS for the first time.

With 13 it seems deliberately to be in the accidental category- more so than any other NUWho and more inline with 1st Doctor era when he couldn't control the TARDIS flight and so couldn't return companions to their own time.
So just as 1 essentially kidnapped Ian and Barbara and that's how they got taken along so at the end of episode 1 of 13's run the others get taken along by accident.
But then it starts to get inconsistent. She didn't mean to bring them along, and she forgets Yaz is even there in episode 2 yet shortly afterwards she is all excited to go to tea at Yaz's house and is calling them her 'fam'.

Its hard to see why though. Or what changed between her only having them there by accident and forgetting they are there to them becoming best friends. Its not really supported in the scripts I dont think. (Unlike 1st Doctor and Ian and Barbara where their relationship was understandably not great at the start given he kidnapped them, but they grew in each other confidences and trust over time and over the entire first series.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:15 pm

yep agreed I just don't get the sense of relationship or friendship or even antagonistic respect. With Rory there were undercurrents of rivalry but you could see they were solid. Donna was an 'accident' but she quickly established one of the strongest friendhips in NuWho. When you think of the people he could have asked to join him, like Sally Sparrow, yet he/she doesn't even ask Ryan and Yaz its just taken as a given, it doesn't seem real or consistent.

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All New Who - Page 18 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by azriel on Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:02 pm



"Delivery for the Doctor!"
BBC ONE 18:30 SUN 18 NOV



Can you believe we are just over halfway through the series already? In this weekend's episode a mysterious message arrives in a package addressed to the Doctor, leading the team to go undercover at the galaxy's largest retailer, Kerblam!

Making a guest appearance is Not Going Out star and Doctor Who superfan Lee Mack. See if you can spot him in the trailer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06rf536?ns_mchannel=email&ns_source=&ns_campaign=PANUK_SHO_46_DCW_LeeMack&ns_linkname=bbcone_doctorwhoprogs11e7kerblam_dramascififantasy&ns_fee=0

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46210019?ns_mchannel=email&ns_source=&ns_campaign=PANUK_SHO_46_DCW_LeeMack&ns_linkname=bbcone_doctorwhoprogskipchristmasday_dramascififantasy&ns_fee=0


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:59 pm

{{First impressions as always- I quite enjoyed it. It was quite old school. Still a few niggles but for the most part that was harmless, entertaining, traditional Who.


Spoiler:

So the set up- whilst flying through the Vortex a robot postman intercepts them to make a delivery from Kablaam! the universes Amazon basically. The delivery is a fez in an 11 call back (one of two outright calls back in this the other being to 10 and Agatha Christie) but Yaz notices the delivery slip has a message printed on the back- Help Me - which is enough to send our TARDIS Team off to investigate Kablaam- whose warehouse and delivery service take up a small moon. It also is under the legal system of the moons planet- under whose law to curb rampant unemployment, 10% of the workhouse must be 'organic'. The rest of the stem is automated and overseen by an army of robots.

And thats the set up- its good Who stuff- moon sized factory setting- potentially killer robots, and a cry for help.
And most of team TARDIS gets a good shift to do for once, and hooray- so does Yaz. And by things to do I mean she actually comes across in this as a young, but trained PC with potential. Not only does she notice the message she asks sensible questions when investigating among the workers as to what has happened and actually learns valuable information. This all good Yaz stuff and the first episode she has felt like she is more than there, and which builds on her initial character promise of being observant and able to take, or at least attempt to take, control of  situations like a police officer would.

However there is the Doctor, which  I mention here as there is a few times the plot hinges on her either not noticing something she probably should have, or being a bit slow on the uptake- to the point its excused in the script as conspiracies being so complicated its hard to keep track off- problem is this one is not that complicated. And she still hasn't got used to the TARDIS controls and systems since it regened apparently, which is particularly odd as usually that's taken of by the telepathic circuits- the Doctor knows what levers do what and which to pull  because the TARDIS knows. The Doctor doesn't normally take more than half a series to work out what all the controls and screens mean since the 1st Doctor- and hehad the excuse he wasnt trained to fly one, let alone on his own, and he stole it. This is also the second episode in a row where she thinks the wrong people are the bad guys whilst missing the actual bad guy hidden in plain sight, which doesn't help in the 'this Doctor is a bit thick' impression that  is building.

Otherwise however this is probably her best performance for me as the Doctor, the quirky banter is for the most part just on the right side of not being annoying this time, she does do stuff and comes up with a plan, twice, to save the day. She even has a couple of more steely moments which are very welcome and she shows she can play if they just give her the material to work with. Her big speech does veer a little towards feeling like a lecture for the audience, which is a shame, but she delivers it passionately enough.

Ryan gets a little sidelined but he is given a few short, but decent scenes, and at least one of the writers has remembered his illness- so that's delivery chutes we can add to ladders! And Grahame gets some genuine nice scenes with the episodes bad guy before his reveal as the bad guy.

The secondary human characters are introduced, some better than others, but nearly all with exposition from them on their backstory, which is unfortunate given this series trend for exposition scenes. But once Team TARDIS get assigned their jobs with their human co-workers it just switches between them all for a bit doing various forms of 'they get the person to tell them about themselves or the facility' exposition until it either establishes character  or presents a plot moving on point.

But the bad guy is nicely presented and developed, the clues are maybe a little sparse but they are there, I felt his tragic love for the girl he ends up inadvertently getting killed to make him feel the suffering he is about to inflict with is act of terrorism, turned out a bit pointless, and maybe a tad too harsh- blowing her up to make the point of how that pain feels to the bad guy is one thing, but as he rejects it anyway as being worth it for the cause, and goes ahead with his plan anyway it all seems a bit wasted and pointless- just an case of introduce a character, make her really nice and friendly, and then kill her for shock value. I dont think in the end it actually served any of the narrative.
Plus it muddies the morality- the System itself send the plea for help because it realised it was being hijacked to turn all the delivery robots presents into bombs- in the bubble wrap set off when popped, which everyone does- and I like the humour in bubble wrap, used in classic Who painted various colours for alien skin texture was now the open threat- but its the System who kills the girl so the bad guy will feel the pain he is about to inflict- but the System is till the end viewed as the victim here who called for help and was saved by the Doctor- the fact the System also took it upon itself, a computer afterall, to murder a worker to make a point, is never questioned. So I think the whole incident would have been left out.

But yes it does once again boil down to the series theme of its not really the alien/robots/monster/evil computer that's the threat, its people. And boy I'm getting sick of that. Give us a villain- a good to honest old fashioned, evil fecker villain- and make it an alien, or a monster of some sort, just give us a story where its not all 'the evil men do' week after week!!!!! Who's strength week to week its ability to be so varied- so fecking vary it!!

All the guest stars are good and put in solid performances, and none of them feel like ridiculous caricatures of people, no Trump a likes her thank god.



Its not an outstanding episode, its not a ground breaking episode, its very traditional, overall, but it is a solid enough entry in Who's episode list. I cant find too much against it. So 7 out of 10  }}}


Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:59 am

{{Things in this episode which I thought were, well a bit weird!}}


Spoiler:

1. The Doctor not being able to pilot the TARDIS or understand the controls after what must be months now of her flying it. It makes her look less intelligent and capable than her predecessors.

2. The Doctor being slow on the uptake to the point where the script needs to come up with excuses as to why she is being so slow on the uptake. Combined with her not understanding the TARDIS controls yet, and all the other episodes she has been slow in, its making her seem thick.

3. What the hell is the morality of this episode? The speech the Doctor gives at the end seems to side with massive corporations and against revolutionaries (kind of the opposite of Who in classic era, or the idea of the rebel Timelord, the show used to side with more sympathy with revolutionaries against governments or massive corporations), but whilst his methods are horrible, his aim, to show the unfairness and cruelty of the corporations and their systems and that humans have a right to work, seems to be valid enough. He has a genuine cause he thinks in the long run his plan will help. The cruelty of his methods and the idea you can excuse mass murder in the name of a cause, no matter how just the cause, is fairly criticised but there is no criticism of the System or Kablaam from the Doctor- even though the System murders someone just to try to make a point and its the planets employment laws which has created the situation.
So the bad guy was going to do something bad, but for a good cause, and the System is the victim under attack but it murders to make a point, and the Doctor praises the corporation at the end, who then promise to move to full human factories as a result- so bad guy's threat of terrorism worked? How can you change an economy like that on a click of a finger? Going from 10% employment to 100% would be a hell of a change to their society, not to mention presumably robots are more efficient and dont need rest or breaks or social time. Wouldn't the economy collapse? And massive corporation getting complete autonomy to govern themselves separate from the planets government is a good thing?  The episode doesn't seem interested in any of that though and the Doctor loves Kablaam- so hooray, happy ending, I guess?

4. Kablaam itself is oddly defined- at the start the Doctor tells us its the biggest Amazon type thing in the galaxy, and one of their postman is capable of time travel? As it catches up to the Doctor whilst the TARDIS is in transit inside the Time Vortex (the Doctor did get a message this way once before, though he was just in deep space not in the vorteex, but it was sent by Time Lords- how does Kablaam have this tech than can navigate the time vortex as well as a TARDIS? How does it get inside the TARDIS, past the shields- how many time have we been told, and seen, that you cant force entry onto the TARDIS easily, its almost impregnable, especially in flight when the shields are up- that's tech on par with Time Lords! If Kablaam robots can travel the time vortex then why dont they use time travel to ensure packages can arrive as soon as you decide to order them, sent back from the future? More importantly it implies, along with the Doctors words, that Kablaam sends stuff to customers all over the galaxy (and possibly in time?).
Yet when we get there everything we see there relates only to the planet round which Kablaam orbits- its their labour laws, its there that has the unemployment and human workers right movement exists, its here all the workers are from, when Kira is talking about the presents going out she talks only about people on the planet getting their gifts, not folk all over the galaxy. In fact after the opening bit everything else indicates this place serves the planet it orbits and maybe some colony worlds close by- not the galaxy. So which is it- why can't the episode seem to decide?

5 Why does the Doctor keep needlessly killing things in cruel ways? At the start she chastises Grahame and Ryan for saying the robots are creepy, claiming its robophobic and she has robot friends (possibly a Chameleon reference there)- but her solution at the end is to get the System to teleport the postman right back to the warehouse, thus not delivering there lethal packages. So hurrah, bombs arent delivered, they can be deactivated one by one, and the robopostman go back to work- no.
Her plan is to transport them back, them get them denote their packages, blowing themselves up in the process. What? Why? What for? Why do all the roboposties need to be blown up, they haven't done anything wrong, they arent bad robots, they were just doing their job.
Really the morality in this series has been all over the shop, even within a single episode, and this one is a bad as the spider one. The Doctor is the bad guy here- she is the only one who sets off the bombs, she is the only one who kills on mass- all the postie robots. Plus with 100% human she just put all the robots out of work, and presumably into decommission. Robots she was espousing the rights of at the start! What's going on? Is she secretly going to turn out to be the Valeyard?! Cause she keeps killing stuff gratuitously and fucking things up for no purpose. }}}


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:39 am

{{Clip form Kablaam shown on Children in Need- for those who are curious to get an idea of the new feel and Doctor but without watching a full episode! }}


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Post by halfwise on Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:36 pm

Yeah, it's off. She should be full of delight at things like the robot courier, but not wonder. The Doctor's seen it all. She's acting like she's meeting celebrities for the first time. Even someone who's not immersed in Who can see how wrong it is.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:47 pm

This is what I think of as a great Doctor Who. Razz Its got all the right ingredients. The current Doctor hasn't had one second like this in the whole 6 episodes. Not once have I thought, yep this is the Doctor. No


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Post by halfwise on Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:32 pm

Yes, that's it.  His wide eyes are showing knowing delight, not child-like wonder. It's a subtle difference but it can be felt. Wonder should be reserved for things the Doctor hasn't seen, which isn't bloody much.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:52 pm

{{12 when he encounters what he thinks is something genuinely new to him! }}


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