US General Election 2016

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by bungobaggins on Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:59 pm



Got to watch this live. Thought it was a well reasoned and articulate explanation of her vote. Probably the best political speech I've ever heard.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:41 pm

For all the yammering on the left, it's a case of "he said, she said".  

Logically the vote had to come down to the qualifications of the judge, informed by partisan preferences.  I think Stephen Colbert put it simplest: before the testimony there were 51 Republicans and 49 Democrats.  After the testimony there were...51 Republicans and 49 Democrats.  Without hard proof it could come out no other way.

Personally I found his legal replies to be well reasoned, and though he may have a large number of dissenting opinions which may come off as dogmatic, I did not not see that in the admittedly little that I watched.  I didn't like the conspiracy slant he put on the attacks against him, though he was under a lot of pressure at the time. There was no reason not to vote for him except long-term politics.

In short I wish both sides would be more reasonable.  Right now there's more howling from the left, but they didn't  get a fair shake with Merrick Garland so perhaps are entitled to some venom.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by bungobaggins on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 pm

If it was really about Merrick Garland wouldn't all the hate have been directed at Gorsuch? Also, they only have Joe Biden to thank for the Garland situation.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:20 pm

The "Biden Rule" was a very poor excuse for delaying for half a term. Neil Gorsuch showed the Democrats were capable of playing fair, but once the second vacancy came up the niceties were over. False accusations of rape are in fact very rare, so this was a good thing to run with, and since it was leaked (and Feinstein held onto it for 6 weeks by request) the senators could not be accused of playing dirty politics. But the corroboration was weak.

I think it should have been done behind closed doors, the outcome would have been the same, but the circus would have been less destructive to both people.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:28 pm

{{{ Looking at this from the outside I am not sure what the Democrats ever thought they would gain from it- if they had a smoking gun, some tangible evidence, photos, or film or multiple witnesses willing to testify and corroborate then I could understand their actions- but with what they had there was never going to be another outcome than this. It was always going to split across partisan lines, everything in the US does right now.

The only thing I can think of is that they intended to delay the vote until the midterms in the hopes of wining the house. But that was such a big time frame it was always at best a long shot, way too much so to put all your eggs in one basket over.
If anything I think this will harm the Democrats, its fired up a segment of their base, in the same way Trump's wilder and less pc rhetoric can his, but its off-putting to everyone else. And worse its bad politics form the Democrats  plain and simple because it plays directly into Trumps narrative that the Democrats are only interested and obstruction at any cost- the best way to convince people of a lie is to lace it with a grain of truth. It also didn't do the US international reputation much good as it was an unedifying spectacle all round and for everyone involved. }}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:42 pm

Well, remember that Feinstein sat on the accusation letter for six weeks. They didn't want to do this, but the leak forced their hand. Now it's fired up both sides. If Trump had seen this coming he might have gone with someone safer, but nobody saw it coming, and as a consequence it wasn't handled in the best way by anyone.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:04 pm

{{Yes but the top suspects for leaking it are the Democrats- so someone thought it was a good idea. }}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:40 pm

It wasn't the leadership. Seems to have been one of Feinstein's underlings.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:44 pm

Putting things in perspective for men who are feeling threatened by the MeToo movement. (this could be adapted for white people threatened by the Black Lives Matter movement as well).

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/woman-sings-musical-parody-scary-150313030.html

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Eldy on Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:44 am

I mean, while men aren't subjected to daily harassment and risk in the same way as women, they're still more likely to be victims of sexual assault than to be falsely accused. That's not something that "men's advocates" generally want to talk about, though.
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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 am

If anything men are far less likely to report being assaulted.

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Eldy on Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:27 pm

I don't have any statistics on hand but there's definitely a lot of stigma against victims which can manifest in different ways based on a variety of factors, including gender. Of course, a lot of research has indicated that the majority of rapes go unreported. The push to break the taboo around male sexual assault is probably newer/less widespread, but there are still a lot of barriers facing women who try to report which discourages many from doing so.
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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Orwell on Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:13 am

And, of course, there are men who never get sexually assaulted, not even by their spouse! Not that I would ever complain or try to trivialise an important subject... Cool

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:59 am

"Our Orwell's back and he's gonna get in trouble (Hey-la, Hey-la, our Orwell's back!)"

Hiya Orwell!  Wave

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Orwell on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:11 pm

I never really went away... scratch Just don’t say much no more... which I thought might be a blessing... Very Happy

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:21 pm

As far as we can tell you're gone for long times and we consider it a loss.   We see you about as often as Norc, Blue is fading into pale cobalt (hopefully just busy).  Amarie occasionally is roused.

The World is Fading

Well, i’d certainly like to know when Amarie is roused.... I’m sure I could find time to be here... every time, in fact. Very Happy*

* That was me, that’s Orwell [Lord High Moderator] I accidentally crashed your post, Halfy...  Mmm... l like your curtains btw... velour? Never would have picked you for a fan of velour... Cool

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Orwell on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:45 am

Oh dear... just came back and realised I crashed your last post, Halfy! I forgot I had certain powers as Chief Moderator here... Actually, I think of myself as Lord High Moderator... under Amarie, of course... I know who is on top... Amarie is on top, has always been on top, and will always be on top... Not that i’m complaining...

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by azriel on Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:33 pm

Rolling Eyes

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Orwell on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:20 pm

Well, Azriel, you can roll your eyes all you like, but sooner or later it’s just best to accept that when you have a good woman on top you just gotta accept it graciously... and maybe think of England. Cool

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by halfwise on Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:57 am

Yep, no one can doubt that Orwell's back. Rolling Eyes

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Orwell on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:18 am

Yes, you can tell by my avatar thingee...

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by bungobaggins on Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:10 am

A little taste of what's going on here at home in addition to the Keith Ellison allegations.

https://freebeacon.com/politics/two-gop-candidates-assaulted-minnesota/

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:11 am

{{{ I dont think anyone would do anything than condemn physical attacks against anyone, even politicians! (Unless you are the President, then you encourage it at your rallies, and even offer to cover the legal fees of anyone arrested for doing so! And of course Trump supports regimes worldwide who routinely torture and murder their own citizens)



But then given morality and politics is gone in the US, especially at the top- the President- its maybe not surprising. When your President is making excuses to let a murderous backwards bunch of bronze age thugs like the Saudi's off the hook at all costs, in return for cash, its seems churlish to a degree to complain about getting punched from a democrat supporter- there are hundreds of thousands of dead civilian in Yemen, murdered by weaponry fired by the Saudis, paid for by you, the American tax payer- that bus of kids that got blown to smithereens with a US bomb?- you paid to blow those kids up, you paid for their murder, the suffering, the pain, the horror of it, that was you- that's your money at work America people. And those who fired the weaponry? Those are your chosen best friends under Trump.

I think the US has bigger moral issues than some angry democrats Bungo (and most of those moral issues are in the White House). }}

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by Orwell on Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:41 am

Actually, I thought Trump would never be President once... I am far less confident he won’t be twice. What a mad world it is nowadays...

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Re: US General Election 2016

Post by bungobaggins on Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:13 pm

@Petty yeah you’re right I guess we’re just asking for it. Hopefully I’ll be knocked out cold next. Christ knows I deserve it.

My god I’m a child murder. I am going to kill myself. This is not a joke.

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