All New Who

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:44 pm

Laughing

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:14 am

{{ An often underrated companion- Martha Jones-



And only 1 series and a reappereance in the following series finale- less time onscreen than the 'Fam'. Hard to believe isn't it? Mad }}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:52 pm

the drop in quality is mind-boggling. No

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:59 pm

{{ Was going to review the first part of the finale but as it was really nearly all setting up stuff for part 2 and largely consisted of exposition/move somewhere/exposition/move somewhere/exposition/move somewhere/surprise reveal! there wasnt a whole lot to it when you boiled it down.
So going to wait to see how bad the resolution to it is before I review it. }}

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Post by Nagual on Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:09 pm

Exposition is really really really pissing me off. Well, actually that's a lie. My disinterest in Dr Who is now complete.
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Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:10 pm

yep me too. I haven't bothered watching the last three episodes.

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Post by Amarië on Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:14 pm

That's the most Who-ish Chibbers episode yet!

So... Hopefully just one more season and Chibbers is replaced?
I was not happy during Moffats run, but at least I felt something.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:55 pm

{{ Finally got a night off and slept enough to remember my name- 'drunken crabbit bastard' (sure thats it, its what folk keep calling me) and was thinking I should really watch this finale see if its as wretched as rest of this series, when Nagual messages me to say he is thinking of popping by.
So I warned him as I knew he had seen it last night that if he came now he would have to watch it again.
His response was-

'oh, I think I want to see your reaction live. That might be entertaining.'

Suspect Why do I get the feeling my crabbit is about to get a lengthy run out this week!! Mad }}

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Post by Amarië on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Oh to be a fly on the wall...

Live stream at Discord? Laughing

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Post by malickfan on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:15 pm

I didn't watch the finale, but I have read various reviews and all the spoilers.

Rest assured Petty, you will indeed absolutely positively hate it and explode in a glorious bout of crabbit rage.

Razz Nod

And as for myself, having found out what happens in this finale episode, I can say that I definitely don't intend to ever watch a single episode as long as Chinballs and Shittaker are still involved.


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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by azriel on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:44 pm

Chinballs and Shittaker Smile I love the nick names thought up on here Smile

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Post by Mrs Figg on Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:13 pm

bounce  cant wait for the crabbit

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Post by malickfan on Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:10 pm


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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:15 pm

{{ A review will follow, once I think Ive consumed suffcient buckie to get over it to be crabbitly coherent. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:35 am

{{
Spoiler:
A while back I made one of those lengthy lore posts no-one reads about the history of Gallifrey.
In it I said that regeneration began as a side effect of travelling in the vortex, a slow change to Gallifreyean DNA, which once discovered was exploited by the genius of Rassilon, and accelerated into a variety of medical purposes, the top thing being regeneration.
You can forget that. This is no longer true.
You may recall that in the 11th Doctor episode A Good Man Goes to War this very quirk of vortex effect on DNA allows Madame Kovarian and the Silence to exploit the process in the newly born Melody Pond, conceived onboard the TARDIS whilst it was in-flight in the Vortex, allowed Melody the ability to regenerate as well as extending her natural life span. Creating the River Song we watched for so many years.
Forget you saw that. That is no longer the case. That's not how regeneration happened any more. River Song cant have existed.
You might think you remember that Clara splintered herself throughout the Doctors entire timeline to defeat the Great Intelligence and save the Doctor, witnessing all his previous incarnations including the secret one he hid from himself.
Forget you saw that too, that's no longer the Doctors past. No longer the Doctors timeline. So can't have happened.

And so it goes on, and on. Sadly the list of things this stomps on lore wise is so long and scandalous I will leave the surprises and horror of the rest to come in the telling of the plot. What passes for one.

I say that because for the Doctor the plot consists of being paralysed for ¾ of the episode and either looking at things or staring at things whilst the Master, mainly, expositions at her until finally she expositions at herself what's going on before finally escaping and actually getting something to do, which amounts to threatening the cybermen and then running away while someone else sacrifices themselves to save the day.
I know Ive given Chibber era stick for exposition in the past but my god this entire episode is made up of exposition.
It begins where last weeks left off, on an alien planet at the boundary which leads to Gallifrey through which the Master comes. He takes the Doctor back through the boundary to the ruins of Gallifrey and leaves the fam plus spare humans from last week to fight off a bunch of cyberman sent to hunt them down and kill them.

On Gallifrey the Master proceeds to reminisce to the Doctor about their childhood days in the Capital, and we get a list of lore drop stuff from the Matrix to the Panopticon. And spoiler, as Gallifrey by episode end is going to be utterly wiped from existence and all Time Lords gone, what's the point to all this lore dump about Gallifrey? Why bother telling new viewers about all these classic Who Gallifrey references only to destroy it all anyway forever at the end?
So after the ultimately pointless info dumping their past together the Master paralyses the Doctor and places her into the Matrix, telling her he hacked it for fun until he stumbled on the truth about Gallifrey.
Telling this truth takes most of the episode up in terms of the Doctors story line, all but the last few minutes of her time in the episode in fact and consists of the Doctor in the Matrix witnessing events whilst the Master expositions the story at her and us.
And the story. Oh boy! Here goes you might need a stiff buckie for this.

So long before Gallifrey was called Galllifrey its indigenous people with some silly name decided to explore space, or at least one of them did? Anyway this woman, because of course it a woman, the seeming sole space explorer of this race went off exploring space in a spaceship we are told was primitive and dangerous. But somehow got her to the other end of the universe and back.
Anyhow once improbably there she discovered the Boundary, a huge wibbly-wobbly portal to another dimension located at a massive stone construction of two pillars. And there she finds a small child, a girl, of course, black,of course, seemingly abandoned having passed, been put, or fallen throw this boundary.
So the explorer takes the child and brings her back to what would become Gallifrey.
On Gallifrey the child has an accident, falls from a high cliff and dies, or should've done. Instead she regenerates.
So explorer women, who is also a scientist, naturally, begins experimenting on the child to get the secrets of regeneration. And though the tone of these scenes is not shot implying this is done from any foul means, she seems quite nice, the child never seems in distress, the implication we are led later to have supposed to have taken is that the explorer was torturing the Child, killing them over and over to witness and record the regeneration process. Chibbers also uses it as an opportunity for us to see that the Child regenerates into every colour and nationality of human you can imagine.
Eventually the explorer women cracks regeneration, and goes onto form Time lord society with herself at the head of it.
And the Child? Well that of course was the Doctor. She has lived many regenerations, uncounted it seems prior to the 1st Doctor we thought we knew, the Hartnel Doctor, and was instead employed by a secret Gallifreyean group called the Division, whose job it is to interfere on behalf of Gallifrey in the universe when official policy is not to. She then had her mind wiped, was forcibly regenerated into a child and that is the 1st Doctor and Doctor we have known since.

Now this raises about a billion questions. If this was pre Time Lords, where are the all female rulers?- is she supposed to be the first? but she is not magical of psychic or any of the things they were, and they were overthrown because of their mysticism by Rassilon who led a group of people who believed in science over mysticism. But she's the scientist here so does she go onto become Rassilon after she takes charge of Gallifrey? At the end she is dressed in Time lord robes, which didn't happen when the female rulers were in charge. Who knows Chibbers doesn't bother saying. He just overwrites everything.
But if he's wiped out the earlier all female rulers to replace them with this then if they didn't exist then the Sisterhood of Karn who we have seen since 4th Doctor era cant exist now either, as they are the survivors of the original all female ruling class. And were does all the Gallfreyean psychic tech come from like psychic paper, telepathic abilities etc when this episode gives no hint at all that the early people of Gallifrey were gifted this way?
Why did they never go back to where they found the Boundary in the first place to see what it was? How did the boundary get from where it was to conveniently be on the planet the Doctor found it on? Why does it now lead to Gallifrey and not whatever dimension it originally did and the Doctor came from? If the Boundary has being used by humans for decades as an escape from the Cybermen where did all those humans go? Gallifrey? The dimension the Doctor came from originally? Who knows Chibbers never addresses it or mentions their fate, we never find out.
If the Child can regenerate infinitely then why does the Doctor have the 12 regeneration limitation and need a new regeneration cycle form the Time Lords in Time of the Doctor to continue living? Oh god I need more buckie!

So just to recap the Doctor is not from Gallifrey but is really an infinity regenerating unknown being from another dimension who was found as a small black female child and tortured by her adopted parent (apparently) into giving up the secrets of regeneration on which all of Time Lord society was built- we get no mention of Rassilon, Omega or any of that of course- they were men!

And here is maybe my biggest issue with this outside of shitting on established lore, within the confines of what drives the narrative in this story- the Master destroying all of Gallifrey and his own people- it makes no sense. There is nothing in this 'secret' history of Gallifrey that should have enraged the Master or why he would take it out on the Time Lords, let alone ordinary Gallifreyeans. The Master should gloat she is not really high born Gallifreyean, she's a fraud, an orphan, abandoned, and unwanted. He should delight in the fact that he benefits from her suffering as a child with regeneration and Time Lord tech, they took her abilities and built an empire out of it.
But no we are supposed to believe that the idea he has any part of her in his DNA is so abhorrent to him that he would destroy everything about Gallifrey rather than accept it. Really? Is he a Dalek now?
There is no aspect of this reveal which can account for the Masters response to it and fit with the character of the Master as presented since classic.
And this is an issue as it's supposed to be the motivation driving the entire set up. And it rings false throughout.

There are other major issues. In attempt no doubt to seem clever Chibbers includes in one of the Matrix flashbacks of the Doctor's past ,the 'Morbius' Doctors- 8 previously unseen pre-Hartnell faces seen in 4th Doctor story Brain of Morbius. But by doing so he puts all the events of the unknown secret Doctor pre-Hartnell. On the surface this seems fine, only issue is when he gave us the Ruth Doctor mid-season she had the post-Hartnell police box TARDIS, a shape the TARDIS only got stuck in once the previously 1st Doctor had got stolen it, at splintered Clara's direction, and got to 1960's Earth.
So even his own inventions seem to contradict themselves. Is the Ruth Doctor pre-Hartnell is everything indicates narratively? Then she cant have that TARDIS. But she does. And no explanation is offered.
Also slightly annoying that in last weeks episode so much time was taken up by the sub-story of the guy growing up in Ireland becoming a police officer and then dying regenerating, completing their career, then having their memory wiped whilst being told thank you for your service. We learn here this as a vision from the Matrix the Master sent to the Doctor, a metaphor for her secret past when she was working for the Divsion on Gallifrey. I find this annoying as it didn't need the lengthy time it took to tell last week, the Master expositions it again here anyway in about a minute, it ultimately adds nothing to the story, and worse there was no indication whatsoever last week that the Doctor was witnessing what we were or seeing those visions. And the Division? Really? It seems a very human sounding name to me for a Time Lord secret police. Time Lords are both pompous and lacking in imagination at the same time, so something ridiculous for themselves, say Celestial, as they sit outside of the Web of Time, and there job is to intervene so literally Intervention and there's a few of them in it so its an Agency. Celestial Intervention Agency. Pompous and dull at same time- Time Lord in other words, and of course CIA. And guess what- that's what it was called in Classic Who! So why is it now the forgettable Division Chibbers? Just had to rewrite that too for the hell of it did you?

Right back to the contemptible plot. So finding out all this about the Doctor caused the Master to wipe out all of Gallifrey. But he keeps the Time Lords bodies on ice just in case something interesting occurred to do with them. And which point we join with the B plot- the Lone Cyberman religious nut with his now ship full of cyberman. The Master contacts the Cyberman and invites them through the Boundary in their ship to conquer the ruins of Gallifrey. Which they do. The Master finds out the lone Cyberman's aim is to remove all organic parts from a Cyberman and make themselves into pure robots. An idea so bad even the Master points out how bad it is in an attempt to save face in the script, it doesn't work. Nor does the Lone Cyberman s plan as after three episodes of build up the Master just zaps him with his miniaturising ray and shrinks him down tiny.
But, and here's the clincher of clinchers in Chibbers writing- you know how in the first episode the lone Cyberman appeared it all turned out to be about a glowy Marvelesque Mcguffin- the cyberium AI- well turns out the McGuffin has had a McGuffin- and its created in this cyberman a particle which when released will wipe out all life. The Death Particle (no laughing at the back that's what its called). But killing and shrinking the cyberman does not destroy it, or release it, so the Master just leaves him lying there and forgets about that. Instead the cyberium leaves the cyberman and joins with the Master. And now he has a new plan. He will use the on ice Time lord bodies to make an army of Time Lord Cybermen who can regenerate.

So how exactly did the Master wipe out all the Time Lords and their collective abilities in the first place? Why did the Matrix not prophetise it happening- thats it job? If the Time Lords are dead and their bodies on ice then there is no longer any regeneration ability in them. How did the Master kill them, keep their bodies yet stop them all regenerating in the first place? If they can still regenerate in some fashion then they cant be actually dead, and the Doctor would know that so why would she allow the use of the Death particle as she does to wipe them all out if she could instead have unfrozen them so they'd all regenerate, saving them, the race and deal with the Master? Cybermen can only assimilate humans, they cant assimilate Time Lords. This is conveniently forgotten. Fuck me the plot holes -need more buckie just to keep up with them all.
Anyway whilst the Mater is off shrinking lone cyberman and conceiving his plan with cyber mcguffin the Doctor talks to herself in the Matrix, now some of the dialogue here I could imagine being said by other Doctors, this is good. Unfortunately when Jodie does it it comes over a someone pretending to be someone who is talking to themselves. She just cant pull it off. Its not convincing. Its like when a child does it only because they know you can hear them doing it. To the point on watching it with Nagual we both burst out laughing. Anyhow after a chat with Matrix version of her previous self in the form of the Ruth Doctor she uses her collective memories to somehow blow the entire Matrix, so releasing herself from it.

So now we have to switch to what been happening in the B plot with the Fam left behind on the Cybership with a bunch of Cybermen. As all this Time lords lore retconning is intercut throughout with fam stuff as its the 'action' part, given the Doctor parts are literally Jodie suspended unable to move while the Master circles round her expositioning at her and her suspended unable to move in the Matrix whilst the Master circles round her expositioning what we are seeing anyway at her. So all the action is on the planet with the fam and co.

The co consists of space Gandalf- an old bearded staff using General who guards the boundary and helps others escape, the stoic mature woman who has a smidgeon of personality mainly brought to the script by the actress, possible comedy relief but his lines and delivery make it hard to tell, young one, and There, as best I can think to say about them is they are There. And of course, Grahame, Yaz and Ryan.
To be brief, they disguise themselves as Cyerman fight off some cyberman, oh and remember first series how they had that framing device of Ryans trying to ride a bike, and by series end he still couldn't showing that some things like his illness did not have simple solutions? Well this series we had him not being able to make the shot on the basketball court, well in this episode he makes the shot with a bomb to blow up lots of cybermen, so yeah, simple solutions! Chibbers cant even stay consistent to his own ideas.

So they escape minus a couple through the Boundary to Gallifrey and team up with Doctor.
But there is something very weird going on in this bit of the story, and it concerns Graham and Yaz, they have two quite good conversations amazingly, where Graham is geeing up Yaz and trying to keep her spirits up when all is dark style of thing. And what struck me about it was in the past its exactly the sort of dialogue you might expect the Doctor to have, with a few minor tweaks, when trying to bolster their companion at a dark time:

“if we don't... I want you to know I... I think you're such an impressive young woman. Never thrown by anything. Always fighting...You ain't got a time machine or a sonic... but you're never afraid and you're never beaten. I'm going to sound like a... like a proper old man, but you're doing your family proud, Yaz, you really are. In fact, you're doing the whole human race proud.”

Its probably the most Doctor thing Chibbers has written. And he gave it to the wrong character! Because if you are looking for any Doctor/companion moments in this one there aren't any- the two story lines are completely separate. And its exactly the sort of interaction between companions and Doctor that has been sorely missing, the senses she gives a real shit about any of them, or they about her.

So they escape through the boundary, meet up with escaped Doctor, she bungs them all in a TARDIS for safe keeping and sends them to earth (so TARDIS's still work fine but there aren't Time Lords who escaped in any? Or ones who were out in them anyway when the Master did whatever he did to destroy the whole race? Oh fuck it where's the buckie) and then she gets shrunk Lone Cyberman with his death particle, straps him to a bomb, its as funny as it sounds, and then proceeds to threaten the Master she will blow it and destroy all life on Gallifrey ( now its shrunk it only wipes out life on a planet not everywhere? Oh fuck more buckie!) but she cant do it- fortunately General space Gandalf can- he didn't go on the TARDIS- he somehow didn't get onboard and no-one noticed including the Doctor (fuck fuck more buckie!) and he sacrifices himself as its not the Doctor's fault it all happened by giving the lone Cyberman the Cyberium mcguffin, it was his fault, he was the one sent it back in time but not far enough, so its his fault. The Doctor is totally fine with this and legs it to yet another spare TARDIS and escapes while Space Gandalf blows himself up and releases the Death Particle. Wiping out all remaining life on Gallifrey in the process forever.
All the Fam sadly survive and return to earth with surviving future humans who despite being in the technological equivalent of the stone age seem pleased, and the Doctor goes back to her own TARDIS- this incidentally means that there are at least 3 abandoned TARDIS lying around from this series- the Masters, the one the Fam and co came in and the one the Doctor escaped in.
The surprise cliff-hanger- because after all that why the fuck not end on a cliff-hanger. The Judoon materialise inside the TARDIS- yup yet again the impregnable TARDIS turns out to be about as hard to get into as a one buckie hooker. They arrest the Doctor and instantly transport her out the TARDIS- again shields etc seem to be broken/non-existent/pointless- to an asteroid maximum security prison- dum-da-da.

Fucking kill me!

So an incoherent plot, ninety percent expositioned at you, a central character who does literally nothing for the bulk of the episode, character motivations that are either non-existent or nonsensical, plot contravariances that stretch credibility, mcguffins serving in place of actual drama, and such a separation between Doctor and companions that they are on different story lines for most of the running time. And for this Chibbers felt it worth completely rewriting the lore of the show. To tell us the Doctor was first a little black girl and can be any sex, colour or race and is of mysterious unknown origins and abilities, has lived many more lives than we know of and worked for the Galifreyean secret police. Brilliant.

Final crabbit rants- Captains Jack appearance to give the warning about he lone Cyberman earlier in the series is even worse now than before. It was and is effectively shameless promotion of the finale inserted as a scene into an actual episode he had nothing to do with, has no narrative connection to and doesn't even get a name drop in. It was purely getting a popular ex character from a more popular era and writers back to promote the upcoming finale, but put in the fucking episode!! Shameless, desperate, barrel scrapping.

The Doctor shows concern her companions might be cybermanned, but there is a weird absence of any reference to what happened to Bill, why not mention her? There seems a reluctance on Chibbers part to acknowledge Capaldi era, Nagual has a theory as to why that might be which he may espouse here himself.

For me this was just awful on every conceivable level. Every aspect of it falls apart at the slightest scrutiny, it contradicts itself, everything that's gone before, and actively undermines entire previous eras and characters. Its a poorly written exposition dump, with far too many ham fisted concepts contending for room in a story with on an over-cluttered cast of uninteresting characters with bad dialogue and often equally bad delivery.

Worst of all maybe is there is the kernel of a finale idea in there- that the Master incapacitates the High Council and teams up with a cyber AI to convert them into regenerating Cyber-Leaders. That would be enough, would not involve destroying all of Gallifrey again or touched the lore. But no, he had to add the rest which is just garbage, utter garbage.

Soul-destroyingly destructive and awful. 0 out of 10. You cant get drunk enough to justify any of this rubbish. }}}

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All New Who - Page 7 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:53 pm

I have timey-wimey wiped the Chibbers episodes from my memory. As far as I am concerned its not Doctor Who, its just a badly acted parody version with the same name. if you ignore Chibbers dire contribution it wll be relatively easy to wait for the real Doctor Who to begin once he is given the boot for destroying it. Its a long wait, but there is no alternative. I am going to ignore any lore he has fucked with as if it hasn't happened, and I am pretty sure this fake Jodie Doctor is just a badly acted cosplay person filling in the time. As for the woke-diversity quotas, sooner or later it will lose its grip once the heads at the BBC realise it is losing them 80% of the audience.

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Post by azriel on Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:20 pm

Im just astonished how ANY of this was ever thought of as "Dr Who" worthy. Its like the whole of the BBC were kidnapped by invading Greeks or fishermen from Portugal & replaced with the toothless fishing net makers you see in the doorways of their simple abodes. Did not ONE person speak up & admit this is the worst case of Diarrhea of any program in all the known history of Television, whether here OR abroad ?? I must now commend Eurovision as supreme Classical music
or those daft Japanese torture Game shows as definitive high brow entertainment after this. Everyone received a wage, a salary for this !!
Id die on the spot. Never in my life would I ever admit to working on the biggest pile of elephant dung. Someone thought it was good enough to be acted on, actors, ( I say that loosely ) found & paid, costumes made, rehearsals held, and THAT is our evenings entertainment ?? What drugs are they sniffing ?? I knew the second it was released that a woman was to play the Dr it was going to be the worst decision in the whole world. My cat has vomited up better stuff than this ! Dr Who I feel needs a break, a good one. In that time really search for quality over quantity & for fucks sake get it right !! Die hard fans will still love Dr Who & will come back IF the writing suits, IF the characters suit, IF the stories are right for what this program is. I look forward to the day it all comes together. ---- and breathe------

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:27 pm

"My cat has vomited up better stuff than this !"


catlol!

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Post by Amarië on Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:17 pm

A female Doctor is no problem, it could be quite interesting (and who does not wonder what DoctorDonna could have been?) if done right. But this is not right.

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Post by halfwise on Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:49 pm

Yep, think of Helen Mirren with good writing. It could have been fantastic.

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Post by azriel on Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:56 pm


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Post by malickfan on Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:20 pm

I haven't watch the finale episode (and certainly have no desire to) after reading all the spoilers I feel more sure than ever I will never watch nor enjoy the shittaker and chinball era, but I think Petty has forgotten one important point-I've read that in the episode the Ruth Doctor makes a very on the nose point that ultimately this secret history doesn't fundamentally change who the Doctor is as a person(which I very much disagree with), if that is the case, what exactly was the point in creating such a clusterf*ck of epic bullshit as this new unnecessary backstory?

For all the self indulgent waffle RTD and Moffat wrote at times, at least then you got a sense of a writer with a clear love of the series and a very clear direction in which they wanted to take the show, but crucially they were never arrogant enough to complete rewrite the history of the series without even thinking about the consequences. Doctor Who thrives on change yes, but change within certain parameters that respect the history of the show.

Here it just feels like Chibnall rewrote the history of the show because he couldn't think of anything interesting to do with it, and sorry but blowing up Gallifrey again already after we spent 10 whole series dwelling on its loss, lazy and derivative.

F*ck me, honestly I think this in infinite times worse than The Hobbit films at their most excessive and bloated-at least then I could respect Jackson's talent and hard work, and we could separate the adaptation from the source material.

Not sure how I can rewatch the old episodes anymore-how exactly can you buy into the growth and journey of the First Doctor, if he has already gone through that process hundreds of times before.




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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:26 am

A female Doctor is no problem- Amarie

{{In that one sentence you present the problem and the solution. The problem is that's exactly how they have treated the Doctor first and foremost- as the female Doctor. What they should have done is to treat her as the Doctor who happens to now be female. Its a subtle difference but a crucial one.

This made me feel down in the dumps ------- Azriel

Whilst it means they are getting rid of the best actor in Walsh, his character did not have a lot of course to run, he has largely this series been reduced to old man quips and little else. He can give a good heart felt speech, but hes had only one or two opportunities to do so.
Yaz however is staying, incredibly. But assuming they were to stick with a single companion they would at least be forced to give her a personality finally and some character. And maybe with 1 companion Jodies Doctor can show some actual real emotional connection with a companion. But probably not, Chibbers will probably just recruit another couple of ethinically diverse gormless cretins to stand in a row and ask questions and nothing will change.

I' think Petty has forgotten one important point-I've read that in the episode the Ruth Doctor makes a very on the nose point that ultimately this secret history doesn't fundamentally change who the Doctor is as a person(which I very much disagree with), if that is the case, what exactly was the point in creating such a clusterf*ck of epic bullshit as this new unnecessary backstory?'

It happens in the pep talk scene in the Matrix Ruth appears in I mentioned, I didnt mention that specific thing because like you I feel its irrelevant to the fact it so obviously does change how we see the Doctor, fundementally. The Doctor is no longer a High Born Gallifreyean who for reasons unknown tired of Time Lord society and with his grand-daughter went on the run exiled from his own planet, and through interactions with humans came to find a purpose and drive in his life which led him to fighting evil wherever he encountered it.
Instead what we now have is an orphaned space baby, not Gallifreyean but of unknown origins and powers from another universe who was found, taken to Gallifrey tortured for their regeneration abilities, enlisted into a secret police force, became the Doctor, did Doctory sort of things only for Gallifrey until goin grogue as Ruth Doctor (I think), then had all those memories wiped for some reason, and was regenrated into a child again as the 1st Doctor. Who isnt learning from his experiences with humans and changing to become the Doctor we know, but is simply relearning how to be the Doctor they have already been for generations untold before. Thats a huge shift in the development of the 1st Doctor in terms of focus, from interaction with humans giving him a moral compass, to he would have gone that way anyway given time as thats who he has always been lost memories or not.

The whole point to the Master, the purpose in his creation as a character by the original writers of the 3rd Doctor era was to create an equal to the Doctor, a rival Time Lord, a Moriarty to his Holmes, as brillaint but evil. Now they are no longer equals, the balance is completely shifted and the Doctor is something far more than the Master can ever be. So thats fucked too.

So the fact Ruth Doctor says it doesnt change anything is sort of nonsensical when youve just changed everything fundemantal to who the character was before. I never mentioned it as it didnt seem true to me. Just trying to paper over the contentious cracks in the lore and all the new contradictions it creates he has made by stomping over most of it.
I mean he doesn teven seem to have thought through reallyt basic things- such as if the Doctor is an alien from some other universe who was taken to Gallifrey why does he have the same biology as every other Gallifreyean icluding two hearts? And presumably he could breed with the natives as hehas a granddaughter. Its just a mess.

'For all the self indulgent waffle RTD and Moffat wrote at times, at least then you got a sense of a writer with a clear love of the series and a very clear direction'

RTD did the most to change the Lore by having the Time War remove Gallifrey and the Time Lords- but he had a very clear purpose in mind in doing so in terms of the Doctor and how it would shape the character for him and as story seeds, and he brought them all back by end of series two anyway.
Moffat got accused more of altering lore but in actual fact he never altered anything, he added more layers of mystery to it, but it changed nothing that had preceded it.
But this, as you say, this just shits on the shows history, and for me to a degree on Hartnell as the first, the orginal you might say (how hollow those lines now will seem every time I hear them, thanks Chibbers you utter cunt! Evil or Very Mad ).

'it just feels like Chibnall rewrote the history of the show because he couldn't think of anything interesting to do with it'

Couldnt agree more. Its beyond lazy writing, its pitiful and needlessly destructive of the past and of something people love. Evil or Very Mad }}

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Post by Amarië on Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:22 am

Walsh was too good for this. According to the mental health issue err episode, his arc seemed to be about grief and discovering that travelling had helped him. Actually, all three companions had some closure- like stuff happening, and it was the perfect time for them to say "we're ok now, we have stuff to do, we've grown, we can stay behind on earth, but do stop by for tea anytime!" But no, cause that would have made sense and we can't have that.

Not sure where I was going with this. Maybe that it did make (sorta) sense story-wise to leave and a lot of sense for him as an actor to leave.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:59 pm



He has made a wise decision, it was bad for his career and he is so much better than that rubbish.

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