All New Who

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:50 pm

{{ One of the many unfortunate things about this episode is it marks a return to the tell don't show mentality of last series. Its back to being an exposition dump.

Spoiler:
Right from the off the episode starts with exposition about offscreen stuff that just happened as we join them about the squids. It then instantly goes into Grahame arriving with his prize, which we only know about because he just dumps how and where he got it and what it is.

We are then whisked to Tranquilty where Ryan is instantly infected with the Hopper virus, again we don't see what this thing does beyond make Ryan think he's under attack from bats, we are told what it does (including the bats before they happen) by the Doctor in another exposition dump about the virus.
Ryan meets the daughter of the owner and she will also give her history with caring for her father as another exposition dump.

The Drel then attack we are told they are apex predators but beyond seeing a person dragged round a corner screaming and hearing lots of screaming and yelling we never actually see them kill a single person in the entire episode.
We are also told they are fast but never see them move fast and that they have evolved to be ablet o adapt to laser fire, which never comes up after that exposition and we never see them do either.

We are told that outside their no oxygen to breathe and that if the mist clears you will blister in less than 10 minutes. But when they are running away from the truck and are outside there is no mist. And no one gets blistered.

During the attack on the truck by the Dregs it all happens offscreen. We are only told what is going on we never see any of it. Same goes for Benni's fate, we hear of it but see nothing and get no resolution to what his fate was supposed to be or if it was relevant.

When daughter grabs mummies gun and turns on her everything is again explained in an exposition dump as to why and who she is and what the resort is.

Everything to do with the resolution, the stuff they need to convert for the transporter, that this is earth, the Drell are mutated humans, is pure techno-babble exposition.

And of course the episode ends on Jodie expositioning what the moral of the episode was about like one of those tacky He-Man endings in the 80's cartoon where they tell you the moral of the week. Though I thnk its maybe closer to the Animaniacs version.}}


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm

{{ Seriously how the buggery did we get from this and from this level of writing, character interaction and explaining things, not to mention perfromance (how I miss companions that challenge and question the Doctor!)-



from "I'm 2000 years old and I've never had the time for the luxury of outrage" to this-

(spoiler for end of Orphan 55)



and yes Who has always done politics, although I would argue its more humantarian than any particular political persuasion, but you have to write it properly, it has to fit naturally with the story being told the journey the characters are on and bear relevance within its own context, not just as a message in itself battered over your head. In fact, you do it like this.}}


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:17 am

{{ Rotten Tomatoes have restored the adience score after backlash and are claiming it was a glitch
.

So as a comparison Capladi's second series has an audience score of 82% the lowest score for Caplaldi era was series 10 which got 68% and was the previous lowest for NuWho on Rotten Tomatoes.

Now Jodies second series so far- its audience score is - 7%

Yup you read that right. Single digits. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:44 pm

Shocked  wowzer

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:46 pm

{{ The AI (Audience apprecition index) for Orphan 55 is out and it scored: 77.
That makes it joint lowest ever in NuWho with two other episodes - 10's Love and Monsters and 12's Sleep No More.

Thing that strikes looking at that however is that Love and Monsters and Sleep No More are unusual Who episodes, they mix up the format and formula and try something new, they are experimental episodes that didnt quite land for a variety of reasons.

Orphan 55 however is a bog standard Doctor Who base-under-seige- the last one of these the show did was 12's two parter Under the Lake/Before the Flood which scored comfortably into the 80's on AI. This should be bread and butter stuff for Who its been doing this style of base-under-seige story on and off for over 50 years. How did they screw this one up so badly? }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:55 pm

{{ Apparently the overnight is the peak viweing number for the episode- when in fact by midway point of the episode the figures had fallen to sub 3 million! Thats dangerous territory. Anywhere about the 2 million mark and the shows in real trouble going forward.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:04 pm

and again...wowzer  No  even newbies aren't buying it. If this continues the next series will be pulled. I bet they find some convenient excuse to stop production, its a waste of money.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:10 am

{{ Clip from the 6th Doctor story The Mysterious Planet, from the series long Trial of a Timelord. In which the Doctor and Perry make the discovery the destroyed planet they are on
Spoiler:
is in fact earth, by finding out the tunnel they are in is an underground station.
Sound familar? (And I never thought I'd need spoilers for a thirty plus year old episode because the latest one rips it off so closely!! Its one thing to pay homage or have a fan callback to something in classic, quite another to just wholesale nick the entire twist from an episode and the same reveal.)



And note the 6th Doctor - detached, alien, as Vastra says of the Doctor "He has walked this universe for centuries untold, he has seen stars fall to dust." And as the Doctor says of himself, "I saw the birth of the universe and I watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time. No space. Just me. I walked in universes where the laws of physics were devised by the mind of a mad man. I've watched universes freeze and creations burn" compare that to 13's all too human response to global warming. Its one of the reasons she doesn't feel like the Doctor, she isnt ancient and alien.
Even in RTD era you have it, in the very first episode Rose she pulls him up for not giving a toss about Mickey's fate, or even realising he's important to her and she might be upset, in the second episode he thinks taking her to watch her planet burn and be destroyed will be a nice first trip for her and in the third that using human corpses as hosts for a dying alien race is fine telling her blunty, 'It's a different morality. Get used to it or go home.' 10 was more human and one of the reasons he's not in my top Doctors but even he still had that alienness from time to time, like refusing to save anyone from Pompeii or how he dealt with the Family. And Moffat era, especially 12 has numerous examples of that alien detatchment, that sense that a lot of the time the Doctor seems to care its just because he remembered he was supposed to look like he cares... .

Doctor: She's, not my assistant, some other word.
CLARA: I'm his carer.
DOCTOR: Yeah, she cares so I don't have to.

...for the benefit of his human companions and interacting with them.

CLARA: So you were pretending to be heartless?
DOCTOR: Would you like to think that about me? Would that make it easier?

And underneath that front is something more powerful and unknowable driven by a well of compassion filled with very the simple desire to do the right thing as he sees it. No superhero,no grand plan to fight evil with light, no end game, just turning up seeing somehting wrong or someone in need of help and pitching in.

"Do you know what I am? I am an idiot, with a box and a screwdriver. Just passing through, helping out, learning."

The Doctor does what anyone can do in their own small way, stand up for what you think is right, help those in need or who ask for help, learn from your experiences and try ultimatley just to be kind. And try to hold yourself to that higher standard as an ideal even if you don't always achieve it.

CLARA: You said your name was a promise. What was the promise?
DOCTOR: Never be cruel, never be cowardly, never give in.

And the sense of unknowable is driven by the contradiction to that the 'Oncoming Storm', 'The Valeyard', 'The Timelord Victorious', the Doctor who in doing the right thing has nevertheless taken more lives than any other throughout Time and Space...

BROCK: What do you want?
DOCTOR: Mercy.
BROCK: We have none.
DOCTOR: It's not a request, it's an offer.
BROCK: Who are you?
DOCTOR: There have been many attempts to conquer the Earth. I've lost count. Not one of them has succeeded. Not a single one. They all lost and burned and ran. That's who I am.

...who swoops in, reorders worlds, alters histories and changes timelines swoops back out again with seeming oblivous arrogance..

"I'm the Doctor. I will do everything in my power to save all your lives. And when I do, you will spend the rest of them wondering who I was and why I helped you."

...without a seeming second thought for consequences or ever dealing with afer effects...

DOCTOR: Sorry, but there's no way we could have rescued your men.
OCTAVIAN: I know that, sir. And when you've flown away in your little blue box, I'll explain that to their families.

...or any explanation why those places or times or people, does he pick certain people to save or let die? Does he know how time will unfold as events change? Is he just winging it and hoping for the best as he so often claims? Or a combination of all? It's part of the mystery of the character and of just how this alien operates, what it really means to be a Timelord and on what basis they do what they do.

"Answer me this. Just one question, that's all. If the Doctor had never visited us, if he'd never chosen this place on a whim, would anybody here have died?"

13 however reacts to everthing just like a human would, an ADHD excitable human whose raided a sweety jar, but like a human. And the Doctor is not human, not comprehensible by human standards, his motivations never 100% certain, his reasons unknown. Alien in otherwords. That's why the shows called Doctor Who. With 13 her emotional reactions to events are all very, very human and humancentric. She doesn't feel alien, or mysterious or like an ancient hidden unknowable is maybe lurking beneath that exterior. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:57 pm

and she certainly wouldn't have a 'fam', Tennants Doctor would be horrified at the thought. There are many people who would have loved to travel with him but were not allowed to, people way more interesting than the useless fam. Jodie is far too jokey and needy, she relies on other people, and its all so false and badly acted. I for one think that Rose, Donna, Amy and River would have been bored to tears with fake Jodie Doctor.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:42 am

{{Thing is we had a real 'fam' on the TARDIS already when it felt genuine and earned, with Amy, then Rory joining, the birth of Melody and the Doctors releationship with the older River who was Melody grown up. It had a family feeling too it, the first family the Doctor had since he left Susan. But it was built up over series, it wasnt just the Doctor declaring they were family instantly on meeting them. And it was reflected in more than the Doctor just calling them family, they had proper releationships, arguments and all, you saw what they would do for each other or sacrifice for each other, even the interior of the TARDIS, with its warm colours, Amy and Rory's personal belongings and clutter, it felt and looked lived in and welcoming like a home. It all worked together to create that vibe of the Doctor having a family around him.
What Chibbers has done is just have the Doctor seem super needy and latch onto the first people she meets as her 'fam' with none of the development necessary for it to feel genuine. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:11 pm

yep I agree, also when do the 'fam' ever show real affection for the Doctor? when do they have deep feelings, of conflict, resolution, trust and loyalty? Its all so shallow, there is no feeling of real companionship, apart from Graham and very occasionally Ryan, but they don't seem related in a normal way, Ryan doesn't seem to even notice Graham is there most of the time, their relationship could be so much more. Bradley Walsh is wasted in this, because he is a very good actor but he has zero to work with. If say it had been Graham with Rigsy from Flatline as his stepson they could have had a brilliant story-line as the troubled and creative Rigsy becomes closer to Graham and Rigsy could have learned to have self-confidence and became less lonely and used his talents, but from Ryan I don't get one iota of his personality, what is his personality apart from maybe fancying Yaz a bit? Actually I got more of a sense of Rigsy's personality in one episode than a whole season/series with Ryan.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:48 am

{{ Graham and Rigsby would have been a great idea Figg. Nod

This is highly recommended, a fan made Doctor Who audio in the style of Big Finish seeing the 9th Doctor team up with the 12th.
The guy who does 9 is superb, if I didnt know it was an impersonator I am not sure I would have spotted it. Sadly cant say same for the Capaldi guy, he gets it at points but at others not so much (when 12 first comes into the story I only twigged it was meant to be him from the sonic scredriver sound!) but the story is excellent and the actual performances (impersonations aside) very good too as is the production value.
Well worth the hour and ten minutes of your time for a multi-Doctor story. }}



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Post by Forest Shepherd on Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:45 am

Oh I'd say 12 isn't that bad.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:18 pm

wow yeah! that's Ecclestone, are you sure its not really him? Razz

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Post by malickfan on Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:57 pm

Well my sister has stopped watching the show, as for my parents I asked my mother what she thought of last week's episode ''it was watchable I suppose'' was the response...which I guess was an improvement from the second episode as my father A) Stopped watching the episode after 10 minutes and B) Decided to give it a second chance...but apparently ended up falling asleep.

I should point out that my parents are casual viewers, who have watched and enjoyed many (but certainly not all-I can still remember the family cringing our way through Voyage Of The Dammed...) of the Eccleston, Tennant and Capaldi episodes (neither were keen on Smith or the more complicated timey wimey stuff) but neither of them are especially hardcore fans of the franchise, they just want 50 minutes of fun or interesting (but simple to follow) entertainment, so far both seem to have found the Chibnall/Whittaker era rather dull and/or middling overall, tbh I no longer pay much attention to the show so I haven't actually really asked that much.

I still haven't watched any of 13's episodes myself, but of my close friends the two I'd classify as real fans of the series gave up on the show last year.

That's just my experience though, no idea how the show is fairing with the wider audience atm.

My girlfriend wants to do a series marathon at some point, so if/when I ever get to the Chibnall era I'm intrigued to see how I'll react.

I'm fine sticking with old episodes and Big Finish for my Who fix, there's certainly lots of great stories I can enjoy revisiting

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:47 pm

{{ You arent missing anything with the current run Malick, unless you are interested in watching the death of a show!
Actually its probably not, yet, looking at viewing figures- but its not good news for the BBC either.

Last weeks episode got 4.1 million viewers at its peak, and its already dropped out the iplayer top10 most watched so at most it will add about 1.5 million to that on catchup.

We can draw some direct comparisons here between previous era therefore and current.

Series 8 episode 3- Robots of Sherwood - 5.2 overnights +7- 7.28 AI 82
Series 9 episode 3- Under the Lake - 3.74 overnights  +7- 5.63 AI 84
Series 10 episode 3-  Thin Ice 3.76 +7- 5.61 (joint lowest consolidated to this time). AI 84

So thats the bar the BBC are hoping Chibber and Jodies era can constistently beat.

Series 11 episode 3- 6.39 overnights +7 8.4 AI 83
Series 12 episode 3- Orphan 55 - 4.1 overnights +7 5.6 (being generous and giving likely upper limit) AI 77

So yeah its not good, at best it will come in about the same level as the previous worst (and series 9 and 10 got shoved about the schedules and wasnt on a cushy Sunday night slot but up against all the main Saturday night live variety stuff- Britains Got talent, Dancing on Ice and all that popular stuff) and it may be a new worst consoldidated. And possibly more worryingly whilst the Capladi era figures were about the same the audience that was watching liked what it saw as reflected in the good AI scores, Jodies audience did not like what they saw. Also note that Capldi era saw about 2 million watch on iplayer, whereas Jodie now seems to be barely getting 1.5.
And most damning is that the extra viewers her debut series began with seems to have evaportated entirely. The retention of those who tuned in at the start of series 11 for the first female Doctor and a new showrunner is awful. The show has lost over half its audience since her debut episodes. And that I am sure will be a concern for the BBC. }}

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Post by malickfan on Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:58 pm

I do lurk on Gallifreybase a fair bit so whilst I no longer watch the TV series I have been keeping up with some of the news/rumours etc, and was broadly aware of the current viewing figures (and that Gallifrey was blown up again Laughing I always found the Timelords in the Classic series to be kinda dull, but this just seems like a lazy move by Chibnall)

In fairness 15 years/12 series is a hell of long time running for a modern UK show, viewing figures are down across the board for many TV dramas, maybe Doctor Who has just reached its ceiling in the number of viewers that can be reasonably expected-at least for the current iteration (regardless of how great and/or crap the episodes themselves may be)?



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Post by halfwise on Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:07 am

I think that's an important point that you can't view temporal viewing trends of one series in isolation. Perhaps you just have to bite the bullet and ask people what they actually think.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:17 am

{{ I think there is some truth in series fatigue Malick. Its not new its part of the furniture again now.
And its also true tv viewing figures are down across the board (nothing this xmas bar Gavin and Stacey broke 10 million).
Who seems to have a core audience between 2-4 million, and then above that a million or so less hardcore who always watch but not necessarily on transmission, then theres about another 3-5 million who stick their head in for specials and new Doctors and regen stories.

But what I think is worrying about Jodies figures is the show has a very cushy steady spot now, its on between the two most watched programs on a Sunday night- Countryfile and Strictly. Capladi era wa sbounced all over Sautday nights sometimes not starting till well after 8 then being on well before 7 the very next week and so on. It has limited opposition on the other side compared to previous eras where Saturday evening tv market is cut-throat and its not doing the catch-up numbers Capaldi era was either. Plus the AI's down. If folk are not watching, not bothering to catch-up as much and not enjoying what they see when they do, that is going to be an issue for the BBC, I'd hope.

Perhaps you just have to bite the bullet and ask people what they actually think.- halfy

Thats what the AI's for. }}

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A Green And Pleasant Land

Compiled and annotated by Eldorion.


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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:52 pm

{{ Audio book by Douglas Adams and James Goss- Doctor Who and the Krikketmen.

If Krikketmen sound familar its because Adams was big on reccyling his unused (at the time) Who material.
The first Dirk Gently book is a blending of two Adams Who stories, City of Death (from which the 'ghost' the ship exploding at the dawn of histroy sparking life on this planet and a few other bits) and Shada (Professor Chronotisis and bunch of other stuff is from it), Doctor Who and the Kirkketmen was a script Adams wrote for Who when he was script editor of the 4th Doctor that was rejected for being too silly (yup in Who!) but then reappeared in the fourth Hitchikers book instead, youll find entire passges from this script pretty much copy and pasted right into Hitchhikers in much the same way entire pasages of dialogue from Shada for Professor Chronotis appear in Dirk Gently (in fact one of the big unanswered mysterious of that book is who exactly is Professor Chronitisis and why does he have a tiem machine in the first place? The original answer of course was simple, he is a retired Time Lord and his university apartment is in fact the interior of his TARDIS.
Anyhow this is the Kirkketman script adapted into a novel. }}


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Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-



A Green And Pleasant Land

Compiled and annotated by Eldorion.


- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales
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Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:05 pm

Another barometer of success is the enthusiasm of long time Super Who enthusiasts like Lippmannette. She has critiqued Who episodes for years, and even in the tail end of Capaldi when things were getting a bit meh, she always made a video and seemed enthusiastic and positive for the future. Since Jodie, she hasn't made one video for about a year. Tells me everything really.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:12 pm

{{ The Critical Drinkers review of Orphan 55, and because I'm not the only crabbit drunken Scot out there Smile We're everywhere! Twisted Evil }}


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Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-



A Green And Pleasant Land

Compiled and annotated by Eldorion.


- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
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Post by Amarië on Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:08 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ The Critical Drinkers review of Orphan 55, and because I'm not the only crabbit drunken Scot out there Smile We're everywhere!  Twisted Evil }}


Oh yes, that sums it up nicely.

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Post by Amarië on Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:20 pm

Next episode is called "Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror".
Can't wait.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:35 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ The Critical Drinkers review of Orphan 55, and because I'm not the only crabbit drunken Scot out there Smile We're everywhere!  Twisted Evil }}



Laughing  every word spot on. Thumbs Up

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