I Cannot Rest

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Post by David H on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:01 pm

Norc wrote:i've finally made up my mind, Petty. Although I see some faults, after seeing them in a marathon, I have no urge to see your edits.

Of course that's fine Norc, but in their defense let me say that Petty's edits are not just about taking out things that make him crabbit. They're really quite artfully done. The result is almost a different movie, so it's not necessary to say you like one better than the other.

If nothing else, I'd encourage you to watch the first 2 or 3 minutes where he sets images to the BBC radio reading of the "One Ring to rule them all" poem, creating a completely new introduction. It's brilliant! cheers
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:The bit of the EE I really want to see is the bit they all see Elves passing in the forest and when they meet Haldir and see Lothlorien from a distance, it wasnt in the theatrical version. and I dont think that music of the passing of the Elves is in the soundtrack cd either.

Not the best quality, but here you go. Very Happy





The Extended Editions are really marvellous pieces of filmmaking though. They're slower-paced than the theatricals but in my opinion that works to the films advantage. If you're looking to buy the trilogy on DVD or Blu-ray I cannot recommend the EEs enough. There's so much great material in them. Smile

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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:10 pm

halfwise wrote:You're simply not applying yourself. Wink I think I've seen everything in the appendices twice, though I do tend to skip all the drawings. Have you found the famous Council of Elrond easter egg?

True enough, I haven't applied myself to watching all the documentaries as much in the past few years. Wink I have seen all the easter eggs though and I love them. There were a few people here who didn't appreciate them as much when I linked to them, though. Neutral
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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:27 pm

woah! easter eggs! I know about two, and that's it Very Happy where do you find them?

oh, and you know why it's not such a big deal that the ee is slow paced? because the book is slow paced ;D
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:33 pm

There are four humorous easter eggs in total on the various discs of the EE. FOTR disc 2 is just a preview of TTT and TTT disc 2 has nothing (the Appendices discs are also egg-less). To find them, go to the scene selection menu on the EE DVDs (or Blu-ray, presumably) and navigate to the last page on a given disc. Then press the "down" button on your remote control again and a ring icon will appear on screen beneath the scene selections. Press that and you'll see the easter egg video.

They're all on YouTube as well but I'm too lazy to go look for them right now. If I recall correctly they're the Jack Black Council of Elrond parody, Gollum getting an MTV award, Dom Monaghan's fake interview with Elijah Wood, and the Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn trying to convince PJ to make another LOTR movie. I like 'em all but some people find them to be sophomoric. Very Happy
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Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:44 pm

oh wow thanks Eldo!. I have never seen those two scenes before. Got goosebumps, feel a bit weepy. I wonder why on earth they cut these two beautiful scenes from the theatrical versions. Sad

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:34 pm

"I wonder why on earth they cut these two beautiful scenes from the theatrical versions."- Mrs Figg

That Mrs Figg has been my main argument against Pj's choices all this time, that you have never seen the EE's goes a long way to explaining some things for me!

Most of the scenes added to the EE's are character ones like these or add extra depth to the world- PJ made a conscious choice to leave in long fights with trolls ect that could do with trimming anyway, and to cut the character stuff out for the theatrical releases.

This shows perfectly his sensibilities, he would rather watch a long fight with a troll than have some character moments, and when given the choice its the action scene he keeps every time.

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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:44 pm

Eldorion wrote:There are four humorous easter eggs in total on the various discs of the EE. FOTR disc 2 is just a preview of TTT and TTT disc 2 has nothing (the Appendices discs are also egg-less). To find them, go to the scene selection menu on the EE DVDs (or Blu-ray, presumably) and navigate to the last page on a given disc. Then press the "down" button on your remote control again and a ring icon will appear on screen beneath the scene selections. Press that and you'll see the easter egg video.

They're all on YouTube as well but I'm too lazy to go look for them right now. If I recall correctly they're the Jack Black Council of Elrond parody, Gollum getting an MTV award, Dom Monaghan's fake interview with Elijah Wood, and the Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn trying to convince PJ to make another LOTR movie. I like 'em all but some people find them to be sophomoric. Very Happy

oh, well, then I've seen em all xD but have you seen the vid where viggo tricks bernard hill? I dunno if it's on the dvd, can't remember.



and just because I found it on the same search. Gríma.. the actor is american!? mindfuck!
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:48 pm

That's one from the Limited Edition (fortunately included in the Extended Blu-ray Very Happy), and yeah, it's pretty good. The LE documentaries are full of silly behind the scenes moments like that. Laughing
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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:51 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:oh wow thanks Eldo!. I have never seen those two scenes before. Got goosebumps, feel a bit weepy. I wonder why on earth they cut these two beautiful scenes from the theatrical versions. Sad

well, the drinking game and the final count scene I also believe is ee (although, maybe the drinking game made it.. Suspect )

although, I must say.. I sadly missed out on the scariest moment in lotr (bilbo going all gollum or whatever) and one of my favourite scenes with the pirats, where PJ and the rest of the crew make their cameo. (when they changed CD's was a good toilet break, if you were quick)
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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:53 pm

Eldorion wrote:That's one from the Limited Edition (fortunately included in the Extended Blu-ray Very Happy), and yeah, it's pretty good. The LE documentaries are full of silly behind the scenes moments like that. Laughing

omg! I totally need that!! I've always wondered where those silly things on youtube comes from!! now.. finally.. I have a reason to buy blue-ray *facepalm*
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:53 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:oh wow thanks Eldo!. I have never seen those two scenes before. Got goosebumps, feel a bit weepy. I wonder why on earth they cut these two beautiful scenes from the theatrical versions. Sad

Time reasons, I guess. I'm glad you got to see them. Very Happy It's been so long since I've seen the original versions that I sometimes forget which scenes were added only to the EE. I understand that PJ couldn't include everything since the theatrical versions were already very long, but I don't think his priorities were always right. The death scene of Saruman and Wormtongue in the beginning of Return of the King gives closure to the principle villain of the first two films and I think the way the theatrical version handles them is a huge copout.

Not trying to be patronizing here, but I just realized you've never seen Saruman's death scene or the Mouth of Sauron. Shocked






Lots of great stuff in there. PJ, Howard Shore, and the rest rebuilt the films from the ground up and there effort really shines through. Smile There are some things I'm not too thrilled about (the Mouth scene is one of them) but all in all I think the EEs are elevate the trilogy.
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:55 pm

Norc wrote:omg! I totally need that!! I've always wondered where those silly things on youtube comes from!! now.. finally.. I have a reason to buy blue-ray *facepalm*

I definitely recommend it, the EE Blu-ray is beautiful. Very Happy The Limited Edition documentaries by Costa Botes don't give a lot of new information and they recycle some footage, but their true value is in the little moments like the one you posted. Cool
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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:57 pm

the mouth of sauron isn't in the theatrical! whaaat?? what did they do instead?? also, how did they handle Saruman in the "original"??

why do you not like the mouth of Sauron? I know that it can be unnescesarru because the audience know Frodo and sam are okay.


oh, yeah. Anyone else annoyed by the fact that it is always "for frodo!" "is frodo alive?" etc. etc. never sam`?
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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:omg! I totally need that!! I've always wondered where those silly things on youtube comes from!! now.. finally.. I have a reason to buy blue-ray *facepalm*

I definitely recommend it, the EE Blu-ray is beautiful. Very Happy The Limited Edition documentaries by Costa Botes don't give a lot of new information and they recycle some footage, but their true value is in the little moments like the one you posted. Cool

totally agree. as much as I like seeing how everything is done into the smallest details, I find myself enjoying the goofing around much more Very Happy
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:02 pm

Norc wrote:the mouth of sauron isn't in the theatrical! whaaat?? what did they do instead?? also, how did they handle Saruman in the "original"??

why do you not like the mouth of Sauron? I know that it can be unnescesarru because the audience know Frodo and sam are okay.

It's been years since I've seen it but I'm pretty sure that after Aragorn et al gave their challenge the gates opened and the army of Mordor came streaming out and the battle started almost immediately. As for Saruman, everyone went to Orthanc and Gandalf said something about how Saruman would be kept prisoner there. I don't remember how or why Pippin found the palantir in that version.

The reason I'm not especially fond of the Mouth of Sauron scene is because Aragorn decapitates the Mouth, who is an ambassador. It's the sort of PJ-ish actioning up that is more typical of action/adventure movies in general but goes strongly against the scene as Tolkien wrote it. In the book Gandalf is quite clear that they aren't going to hurt the Mouth because he's an ambassador even though he clearly has no regard for the Mouth.
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:04 pm

Norc wrote:totally agree. as much as I like seeing how everything is done into the smallest details, I find myself enjoying the goofing around much more Very Happy

Yeah, it's really cool seeing all the cast interactions given how long they were filming. It's pretty crazy that they were at it for over a year. I can't imagine what it was like for the actors from other countries to just up and move to New Zealand for that long. I think Alan Lee and John Howe might have had it the worst though, they moved to New Zealand for a good five or six years. Shocked
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:09 pm

Norc the Aragorn/Arwen story is still in my edits, and if I say so myself the altering of the subtitles to Tolkien's dialogue and the inclusion of the ban to marry unless he is King and my choices of where to cut (particularly in relation to the elf jewel ) between Arwen and Aragorn is actually more sensible than PJ's cut.

And you never know until you try and there is no reason to see it as a rival version just as another alternative to the theatrical, EE's and LE's.

The choices PJ makes in what he left out the theatrical version is terrible, he leaves out important stuff, them seeing the elves leaving and Frodo's explantion to Sam of where they are going is crucial to the ending. The gift giving scene at Lothlorien is crucial to the later plot.
These could have been easily included with merely trimming the length of the action sequences.


Eldo- theatrical Isengard bit they turn up- Gandalf talks to Treebeard, cut to Pippin seeing something glowing in water. Pippin picks up palantir, gandalf takes it they leave again.

The Mouth scene works far better in my edits where the fate of Frodo is an unknown at that point, same as in the book! Very Happy (Agree about the 'diplomacy' though Eldo- book : "I am an ambassador.. and cannot be assailed."

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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:12 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:the mouth of sauron isn't in the theatrical! whaaat?? what did they do instead?? also, how did they handle Saruman in the "original"??

why do you not like the mouth of Sauron? I know that it can be unnescesarru because the audience know Frodo and sam are okay.

It's been years since I've seen it but I'm pretty sure that after Aragorn et al gave their challenge the gates opened and the army of Mordor came streaming out and the battle started almost immediately. As for Saruman, everyone went to Orthanc and Gandalf said something about how Saruman would be kept prisoner there. I don't remember how or why Pippin found the palantir in that version.

The reason I'm not especially fond of the Mouth of Sauron scene is because Aragorn decapitates the Mouth, who is an ambassador. It's the sort of PJ-ish actioning up that is more typical of action/adventure movies in general but goes strongly against the scene as Tolkien wrote it. In the book Gandalf is quite clear that they aren't going to hurt the Mouth because he's an ambassador even though he clearly has no regard for the Mouth.

yes, on that point i can understand. But idk.. Aragorn is pretty angry and well.. it's like the scene with saruman, why the hell would legolas kill Gríma! I mean, Gandalf said he wanted Saruman alive so that he could give them information, so maybe he shot an arrow to stop him, but legolas would have that much wit that he'd see a lost cause and abandon that idea, or, he could have aimed for the thigh or something, and not kill Gríma. Théoden was ready to forgive and let him back... because he knew that Saruman was good talker/spellbounder (or whatever) and it wasn't all Gríma's fault, he wasn't really bad at heart. Just corrupted and twisted and sad and lonely, which Saruman of course took advantage of!
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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:14 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:totally agree. as much as I like seeing how everything is done into the smallest details, I find myself enjoying the goofing around much more Very Happy

Yeah, it's really cool seeing all the cast interactions given how long they were filming. It's pretty crazy that they were at it for over a year. I can't imagine what it was like for the actors from other countries to just up and move to New Zealand for that long. I think Alan Lee and John Howe might have had it the worst though, they moved to New Zealand for a good five or six years. Shocked

the worst? I think they enjoyed themselves, hell, I would. A job, beutiful scenary, doing what they love, being part of something huge Smile seeing your work come to life ^^, but yeah, if you think of being so far away from family, then yes, that is a long time Smile
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:14 pm

I always thought it clear that Legolas shot Wormtongue to try to stop him from killing Saruman. Maybe not the best thought out plan but it's not like Legolas had a lot of time to think.
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:15 pm

Norc wrote:the worst? I think they enjoyed themselves, hell, I would. A job, beutiful scenary, doing what they love, being part of something huge Smile seeing your work come to life ^^, but yeah, if you think of being so far away from family, then yes, that is a long time Smile

They seemed to be quite excited in all their interviews, but when I say the worst I mean in terms of uprooting their lives and being away from their families. I'm sure it was exciting to work on the films, though. Smile
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:17 pm

"I always thought it clear that Legolas shot Wormtongue to try to stop him from killing Saruman."- Eldo

And I always thought Legolas shot him because PJ made a complete of arse of it by not including Scouring, and so there werent any angry hobbits about to do the job and Legolas was the only one in the fellowship to have a bow on him. Very Happy

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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:18 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Norc the Aragorn/Arwen story is still in my edits, and if I say so myself the altering of the subtitles to Tolkien's dialogue and the inclusion of the ban to marry unless he is King and my choices of where to cut (particularly in relation to the elf jewel ) between Arwen and Aragorn is actually more sensible than PJ's cut.

And you never know until you try and there is no reason to see it as a rival version just as another alternative to the theatrical, EE's and LE's.

The choices PJ makes in what he left out the theatrical version is terrible, he leaves out important stuff, them seeing the elves leaving and Frodo's explantion to Sam of where they are going is crucial to the ending. The gift giving scene at Lothlorien is crucial to the later plot.
These could have been easily included with merely trimming the length of the action sequences.

I like the action sequense, but yes, I see your point. But you can't alter the sub! I'm learning elvish words, if you sub what they don't say-ish than D: but how does this flow with acting? and the music? as I understand you can't seperate the music? the music experience for me is crucial, because, ikd if it's just me, but I notice the music very well. All the different parts, cellos, trumpets, everything, and I pay attention to it, so if it stops or it doesn't flow that well, it'll ruin it because I sit there and is annoyed.

I am certain some of what you've done, though, is good. I am not saying it is bad, I doubt that, but I don't want to see it Smile
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Post by Norc on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:20 pm

Eldorion wrote:I always thought it clear that Legolas shot Wormtongue to try to stop him from killing Saruman. Maybe not the best thought out plan but it's not like Legolas had a lot of time to think.

he's an elf, he could easily have aimed for the leg or something. I just feel so sorry for Gríma. he survived in the book, didn't he? but not a good life anyway.
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