So who do you be? Hobbit, dwarf, wizard or elven?

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So who do you be? Hobbit, dwarf, wizard or elven? Empty So who do you be? Hobbit, dwarf, wizard or elven?

Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:11 pm

Kafria

Me - Oh I'm a hobbit maid, with my kitchen always warm and smelling of fresh baking, the garden rich in veg and fresh fruit (redcurrants, blackcurrants, ruhbarb) and always a homemake of some sort on the go (knitting, crochet or needlepoint) A cosy hobbit hole of hand crafted furniture and real enjoyment out of family, friends and good food! And having to put up with living with the big people, everywhere is like Bree these days, no shire to return to!

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:11 pm

Jolly Cotton

Realistically I'm more like a hobbit lass- clumsy, small but large feet, kindly face etc etc. In my little made up world where I decide everything, I'd be an elfish women, always elegant, my radiance shining off my beautiful face, actually though, thinking about it, a pretty hobbit would be nice to be as well!

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:12 pm

Eldorion

I really can't imagine myself as anything but human. Rivendell would be nice to visit, though.

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:12 pm

Ringdrotten

A wandering Wizard of course! I'd roam the lands and smoke my pipe, not caring about anything Very Happy

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:13 pm

Tinuviel

I'm probabaly a normal woman, maybe Dunadain. Or at least I'd like to be. I'm actually half Maia, half elf, and I'm the most gorgeous creature to walk Middle Earth Very Happy Wink

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:13 pm

Pettytyrant101

A Scots Hobbit of course! Wandering the glens swigging Buckie and singing the 'hedgehog song'. (We're the hobbits mentioned in FotR, wandering the wilds and ready to dig a temporary hole in any old bank- for reasons of decency they negleted to mention the buckie and hedgehog bit).

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:14 pm

Odo Banks

And it's not a pleasant experience, I can tell you, when one passes by a kilt-wearing burrowing Scotshobbit! Embarassed

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:15 pm

Kafria

I must say these scotshobbits don't sound so very respectable Surprised Must be why they're wandering, can't see the shire folk being too impressed Rolling Eyes

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:15 pm

Odo Banks

No, only too true, Kafria, only too true! :?

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:16 pm

Pettytyrant101

Don't try to tell me all settled hobbits are respectable. It might be alright down by the Bog where Odo is but there's odd goings on in Needlehole and they're rum folk there!

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:16 pm

Gandalfs Beard

A Hobbit Wizard of course.

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:17 pm

Odo Banks

Some folk should be seen and not heard --- and some should not be seen OR heard, Mr Tyrant! Mad
A Hobbit Wizard of course. There are no such things, GB, and you know it. I sometimes wonder what's going on in that fertile brain of yours -- actually, I prefer not to wonder... :? Embarassed

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:23 pm

Gandalfs Beard

Now you should remember as well as i do that this discussion previously took place on the "Where in Middle Earth would you live and who would you be?" thread (er...unless you didn't participate in that discussion :? ). Wizards are Istari, Maiar, which is to say lesser Valar. And they could take the shape of any being of Middle Earth. So of course one could be a Hobbit Wizard. Wikipedia: Being of divine form and possessing great power, the Maiar could wander the world unseen or shape themselves in fashion of Elves and other creatures; when wearing a mortal guise their bodies could be killed, but their spirit would live on.
The Wikipedia entry is well sourced and can be verified on other Tolkien based sites. It is true that most Istari took on the guise of elderly men, but as you can see they can take the form of any creature of Middle Earth. (Istari, by the way, is one of the many iterations of the name of the Goddess Ishtar, aka Isis aka Astarte)

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Eldorion

That would have been true for them when they were living as Maia in Valinor, but Unfinished Tales explains that when the Valar sent the Istari to Middle-earth, they were sent with limited powers and constrained in actual, physical human bodies. The 'shapeshifting' power was not one that the incarnate Istari in Middle-earth possessed. If there was for some reason a different Maia in Middle-earth (though I don't believe Tolkien ever commented on this possibility) they could well take the form of a Hobbit, but they would not be properly described as a wizard. Wink

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Pettytyrant101

GB I think you've just been Lore Mastered! Shocked

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:25 pm

Gandalfs Beard

Somehow you guys managed to miss the quoted section which essentially describes what Eldo simply restated. Rolling Eyes The Wikipedia entry includes among its sources Unfinished Tales, which is why I posted the link so that you could also check the references. Once a physical form was chosen, they were stuck with it, and the Maia's power was of course limited--hence their physical "shell" could be killed. None of that is in dispute. The fact remains that an Istari could just as easily have chosen to be a Hobbit Wizard...so there!!! Razz Razz :ugeek: Anyway, it's MY Fantasy choice to make Mad Razz ...it just so happens that Tolkien's Lore allows for the possibility. :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek: :ugeek:

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:26 pm

Eldorion

I think Unfinished Tales was pretty clear that the Valar set the rules for the Istari, including their forms, but I'm way too tired to go back and check right now. Either way, I'm not trying to say that you can't say you're a Hobbit Wizard if you want to, but I don't think the idea has much of a basis in Tolkien's writing.

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:26 pm

Gandalfs Beard

Humans, Elves, and Hobbits are the three "races" of "Man" in Tolkien's world (which we have discussed previously, and agreed upon based on Textual Evidence :ugeek: ). There is no reason whatsoever that there couldn't be an Istari in hobbit form. Indeed it's bloody likely. And when it comes right down to it, if there was a call for it, there's no real reason there couldn't be a Dwarf Wizard too. What better way to unite the races of Middle Earth than to have Istari representatives of each? 8-)

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:27 pm

Eldorion

I remember and agree with our earlier conclusion that the main 'races' of Middle-earth were the same species using the modern scientific definition of the word, but Tolkien still distinguished between them in sometimes fairly significant ways. There's no indication in Unfinished Tales that any Istari were sent to Middle-earth in any forms other than that of Men (i.e., humans). You make an interesting and valid point about having Istari of different races - I actually quite like it - but I can't think of anything Tolkien says to suggest that this was the case.

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:27 pm

Pettytyrant101

"with consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of Men, real and not feigned..." -UT So you are both right I think. Eldo is right, in Tolkien they only appear as Men. But from the above its possible they could have appeared as other races but seem to have choosen men as the most effective, and you'd need to get consent GB from Eru for being a hobbit.

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Post by Old Forum on Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:28 pm

Gandalfs Beard

Exactly! And if we accept Tolkien's post-modern "conceit" that he was simply the translator of the Red Book as it came to him, then it is entirely plausible that operating from this same suspension of disbelief one could suggest that Tolkien only knew about the Wizards that were written of in the "surviving texts" he "discovered." Under that assumption, there were no doubt other ancient texts that either didn't survive or have yet to be "discovered." One could easily posit that lesser known Istari had appeared in Hobbit or Dwarf form--especially as the halflings generally avoided "big folk" and Dwarves were often distrustful of the other "races." Who better but Istari cloaked in the guises of these other "races" to help keep them on the right path of forging peaceful alliances with each other?

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Post by Anne on Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:16 am

Old Forum wrote:Gandalfs Beard

Exactly! And if we accept Tolkien's post-modern "conceit" that he was simply the translator of the Red Book as it came to him, then it is entirely plausible that operating from this same suspension of disbelief one could suggest that Tolkien only knew about the Wizards that were written of in the "surviving texts" he "discovered." Under that assumption, there were no doubt other ancient texts that either didn't survive or have yet to be "discovered." One could easily posit that lesser known Istari had appeared in Hobbit or Dwarf form--especially as the halflings generally avoided "big folk" and Dwarves were often distrustful of the other "races." Who better but Istari cloaked in the guises of these other "races" to help keep them on the right path of forging peaceful alliances with each other?

That is very feasible, Gandalfs Beard. Very Happy

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Post by Turembar on Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:24 pm

I think it may be possible that there was a Hobbit Wizard, but consider it very unlikely.

In addition to already mentioned texts, we also have Tolkien's speculation that the two missing Wizards went into the East. Large populations of men dwell there but no known Hobbits. Had there been a wizard among the small known Hobbit populations it is hard to imagine it escaping notice. I also doubt a wizard would choose Hobbit form, since Hobbits are essentially a small marginal race. It was precisely this unknown and relatively unimportant Hobbit's nature that worked to their advantage in the War of the Ring. Had there been a Hobbit wizard, Sauron would have been much more up on his study of them.

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Post by Turembar on Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:59 pm

I guess my short answer to the thread question would be 'none of the above', since garden variety men was not on the list.

Had it been, I would envison my career curve to be something like this:

I would have been Gondorian, but of mixed descent. As a young man, I would most likely have been a Ranger of Ithilian. In real life I always preferred scout duties to remaining with the main body and was known by the nick "Ranger". Approaching middle age I would have shifted to the regular Gondorian army and probably been in the engineer corps. I would probably been married by this time and become much more concious of self-preservation. It's also likely my natural attraction to machines and blowing things up would have led me into the Trebuchet specialty. I would also have been attracted to the cool armor. Once retired from active service I would probably have opened a Catapult repair shop on level 2 or 3 in Minas Tirith.
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Post by Lancebloke on Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:09 pm

Do I have to be one of the main races of middle earth of the third age?

Prior to the downfall and the Valar laying down their guardianship of the world... didnt some of the Mair dwell in middle-earth, like Melian for example?

I quite like the idea of being one of the first, firstborn but going to middle earth after a stint with the two trees and not dying (the elf version of dying).

Do we know of any one those or did they all either die or remain in Valinor? Do we know what happened to all of the original elves that work by the lake?
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