Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3]

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:17 pm

Book 1 and 2 are now re-edited- small but important changes I feel as well as some general tiding up.

Main changes in Book 1 are to Shadow of the Past and the section from Bree up to and including Weathertop as I mentioned above.

Book 2 has has some major changes in terms of characters but minor in terms of length- the Gandalf/Saruman scene is slightly shorter and smoother and the moth is gone, as I figured it makes no more sense there than not there and was just taking up time. I took out one of Elronds negative lines about men to give him less of a downer on men. Thats pretty much all hint at that gone now.
Major change at the Bridge of Khazad-Dum with Gandalf going straight in, no hanging about at all and his final words coming as he falls.
I removed the Galdriel line about footstep of doom- its from the book but so out of context it is meaningless anyway and it means I lose telepathic Galadriel and you dont meet her until they get there.
I also removed the river scene where Aragorn and Boromir argue, I could never get it edited quite right and its main purpose really just to serve the reluctant Aragorn thread that I have removed anyway.
Also major change at the end, Aragorn no longer lets Frodo go but as in the book doesn't know where he has gone until its too late. So this meant new intro for the orcs arrival and no Aragorn single handedly taking on fifty Uruk-Hai.
This also meant a tweak to Boromirs death scene as Aragorn no longer tells him he let Frodo go.

Onto book 3 now!



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Post by Ringdrotten on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:01 am

Are these new versions up yet? I checked both skydrives, and I could only find what appeared to be the old edits.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:52 am

No sorry Ringdrotten- I have finished editing most of them but I havent got round to converting the files yet for upload- thanks for the reminder- starting converting them now.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:08 pm

Changes to Lothlorien- I got it golden! The mirror scene is now however not filtered save for Galadriels freak out scene which is also golden now, to still tie in with the idea each ring is associated with a colour.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:16 pm

is it all Golden?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:18 pm

The scene where they arrive and meet Galadriel and Celeborn and the scene immediately after, where Aragorn and Boromir talk is- mirror scene isnt except the Galadriel lighting up bit.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:20 pm

well its better than green  Very Happy  do you have a dailymotion thingie?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:21 pm

not yet- ill take some screen grabs though and put those up

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:22 pm

Thumbs Up  cool

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:27 pm

These aren't full resolution, I just grabbed them straight out the editing program.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:25 am

hmm Golden looks a bit odd in the dark. I would leave it blue if I were you.  Wink  nice try though.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:18 am

I still prefer the green myself.

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Post by Eldorion on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:09 am

Maybe it looks different in motion, but those are a little too golden for my taste.  The filter starts to drown everything else out after a certain point.
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Post by David H on Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:26 pm

In my mind's eye Lothlorien in so clearly in autumn colors like these, that the blue, or even the green, feel unnatural. Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3] - Page 37 341_1Bukhaensan_Maple_Forest_3
Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3] - Page 37 Same_forest__same_autumn____by_comefosse-d31crj7

Lothlorien should feel "natural" above all things. Unfortunately it looks like the LotR blue filter has removed the ability to differentiate between the red and yellow hues, so you're left with more of a sepia tone. I can't say if that's an improvement for me or not until I see it in context though.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:45 pm

The problem with Autumn colours Dave it is is too close to the red filter for Sauron and makes the place look too ominous.

Part of the problem is the scene is heavily filtered already with a day to night filter before I start- if I could get the raw unfiltered footage I could do a lot with it, having already filtered footage means there is only so much I can do and it tends to be a blanket filter to cover the original, which isn't very subtle (mind you the original night filter isn't very subtle)

Original-

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I prefer the green, as I've got used to it, and it makes the place seem a bit more ethereal and a bit less ewok village.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:06 pm

The blue filter is far more natural for twilight and evening shots. It gives it an ethereal starlit look. Any other colour filter at night looks horrible. Green looks eerie, and gold looks odd. But when they show Lothlorien during daytime it should have a Golden filter, and they already did that. Basically it looks great as in the film imo. If they had shown Lothlorien during daylight but they chose evening time.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:14 pm

The blue filter is far more natural for twilight and evening shots. It gives it an ethereal starlit look.- Figg

That's the whole point- that is completely wrong from the description in the book, the point Sam makes about Lothlorien NOT being stars and starlight and is the opposite from the mood created in the book- which is of sunshine and growth and green living things.

Granted I wouldn't have to try to change the mood if PJ hadn't made such a complete arse out of it to start with and got it utterly wrong.

And it looks like the ewok village in RotJ when its starlit.

Also having the coloured filter- as well as getting rid of the starlight, also plays into the use of the gradual red filter indicating the will of Sauron being active in a place and how the white light of Gandalf and the vial can breach the red (which chimes with Galadriel in the book claiming she can see into Sauron's mind but he cannot see yet into hers).
PJ doesn't bother mentioning that Lorien is only maintained by the elvish Ring Galadriel wears- so the filter hints this is the case by being an unnatural light and subconsciously adds an another layer to what is going on.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:25 pm

they decided on evening, are you saying its never night in Lothlorien? because I am pretty sure it follows some basic 'real world' physics. like night and day.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:28 pm

They focused solely on night- its always night while they are there, and they only appear to be there one night.
Scene after the mirror scene we are no longer inside Lothlorien but at the river bank and its morning.
Only scenes in Lothlorien are the arrival- starlight- meeting Galadriel and Celeborn- starlight- conversation between Aragorn and Boromir- starlight - morror scene -starlight (the only one that should be)
There is not a single scene not set in starlight.

PJ read the book (or not) saw how it was described, how it was specificly more elvish because it was not all stars and moons- then decided to set every scene in star and moon light. He is an arse.  Mad

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Post by Eldorion on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:34 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:The problem with Autumn colours Dave it is is too close to the red filter for Sauron and makes the place look too ominous.

I think the autumn colors are good, although rather than being red-gold the mallorn trees are just gold, as per their leaf cycles outlined in UT.

Part of the problem is the scene is heavily filtered already with a day to night filter before I start- if I could get the raw unfiltered footage I could do a lot with it, having already filtered footage means there is only so much I can do and it tends to be a blanket filter to cover the original, which isn't very subtle (mind you the original night filter isn't very subtle)

I thought that might be the case with the original filter.  In that case, I think the green looks better.  A lot of things (especially skin tones) looks more natural than in the golden one. But of course it's not really closer to the book, but I suppose there's nothing to be done for that.
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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:40 pm

well its certainly beautiful so if he is an arse he is a very aesthetically aware arse.  Very Happy  I like the difference between the outskirts of Lothlorien and meeting Haldir (daylight) and the company looking upon Lothlorien (daylight) the saying farewell and giving of gifts in Lothlorien (daylight) and the actual visit in twilight. Its all gorgeous and doesnt need twiddling with.

But its your edit and you can do what you like.  Wink 
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:47 pm

But of course it's not really closer to the book, but I suppose there's nothing to be done for that.- Eldo

No its no closer save in associating Lorien with green rather than starlight, which is what I am trying to invoke.

And from feedback I have had over the last year or so people really like the effect the red filter gives to the overall viewing experience- as they dont notice it at first but it gives a sense of presence to Sauron in scenes he is obviously not in, but his influence is.

So the green filter helps with that effect, as when Galadriel does her otherwise pointless lighting up like a xmas tree midspeech it now appears in this edit that you are seeing the source of the unnatural light of Lorien- and that a world dominated by Galadriel with the Ring would all be like that- beautiful yet terrible.

So I think narratively without needing to say anything you can get a lot of subtext out of the filtering as well as solve one of the great dilemmas of dramatising LotR's which is no onscreen villain.


'well its certainly beautiful so if he is an arse he is a very aesthetically aware arse.'- Figg

I didn't say it looked bad, I said it was completely wrong. Part of the problem is the story is in a rush to leave Lorien as soon as it arrives so all we see of it is at night as they are only there one night and it doesn't make much of impression on anyone.

I am not arguing here about the orginal really, so much as explaining my thinking for the change.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:53 pm

well seeing as they chose night, blue is the only natural colour to use. Green is just wrong, its dank and spooky and its not nice. just my opinion. Red is also not nice in Lothlorien, nothing evil ever set foot in that land, references to Sauron in Lothlorien is pushing it.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:02 pm

Well at least we agree red is no good for Lorien.

But they didnt have to have all those scenes at night- they didnt have to arrive at night, they didnt have to not have a scene during the day- set the Aragorn Boromir conversation during the day and the mirror scene that night instead of all in the one night with no day inbetween.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:09 pm

it doesnt matter, what is important is the melancholy all the characters feel over the 'death' of Gandalf. twilight fits the sad mood, the haunting songs of the Elves hidden from sight in the trees. It fits Legolas silently walking listening to the song, it fits Boromirs melancholy longing for Minas Tirith, it fits the mystery of the Elves, visually. If it was Golden the feeling of sadness wouldnt be so strong, sunlight would make it feel happy, and in the short time the filmakers have in Lothlorien, there isnt time to show them spending a long visit, the starlight is perfect for the atmosphere.

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