Doctor Who [6]

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by David H on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:49 pm

I haven't seen this episode (the flashdrive is still in transit) or even read the spoilers, so I know nothing about this particular case, but I've always felt that such important important lessons as sexual violence or use of firearms are best taught to kids by their families, because different kids with different temperaments in different environments have different needs.

TV and movies have a bad habit of romanticizing these things for the purpose of telling a good story, which can make many parents' jobs harder because they have to un-teach things.

I think that's probably why such old stories as Red Ridinghood used allegory. The little kids could hear one story while the older kids understood another.
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:48 pm

i can't remember exactly what you guys are talking about. enlighten me Smile
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:49 pm

like what scene, what line?
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:51 pm

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship-
Spoiler:
when Solomon captures Nefertiti and says -

"I like my possessions to have spirit. It means I can have fun breaking them. And I will break you in with immense pleasure. Thank you, Doctor."

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:54 pm

i can't see how that can only be read as sexual. and i frankly can't see the problem with that line, but perhaps i should see it in context. i do however see David's point, that kids take things differently, but dunno yet... i think that was a fairly "innocent" line .
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:59 pm

A lot is in the delivery- I cant find that particular bit on youtube however. But to an adult watching its clear what Solomon has in mind.
I think to a child he is just being nasty but without the sexual threat overtones.

And whilst I dont disagree with David that the home is the best place to learn about such things, books and places aimed at children have often tackled such subjects or have those sort of implications under the text.
And not every child has a home environment where they are going to be educated.
I would not like a writer to feel they can or cannot do something just because they are writing for tv or for one medium or the other.

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:15 pm

Petty I find it laughable that you are suggesting this line by a sexual predator is somehow going to educate young girls in the ways of the world.
I am also surprised you are defending this tired old cinema trope that has been used since the dawn of time, and is only really used as a titilating line for adults and is absolutely not meant as 'education' for Young children.
Want a quick and easy way to show what a vile, evil scumbag your villain is? Well, you could have him sexually molest the helpless Damsel In Distress.
This trope is used for one purpose to emphasize how utterly depraved the villain is, In the meantime, expect Bonus points if the villain is grotesquely ugly/deformed and has a habit of snarling things like 'it will give me great pleasure in breaking you in''. It almost always involves a male villain and female victim. Its been going on since the Victorian days when they would use paintings of sex slaves, normaly in chains, to get their jollies. This is pure male fantasy stuff, its sickening that anyone should suggest that because there are perverts and rapists out there, that young girls should be subjected to this on a childrens television show. Its not ok on any level.

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:40 pm

Its been going on since the Victorian days when they would use paintings of sex slaves, normaly in chains, to get their jollies. This is pure male fantasy stuff- Mrs Figg

I dont agree at all if you mean by that the inclusion of that line is to give sexual jollies to adult males watching.
And if so it certainly did not have that effect on this male. To me it simply capped off his portrayal as a man with nothing to redeem him whatsoever, nothing to save.

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:45 pm

i wanted to join in and write something... but i just realized. i don't care.
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:54 pm

me neither

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by David H on Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:55 am

More thoughts on the rape subject
Spoiler:
Petty, I've been thinking more about this, and I'm leaning more toward Mrs Figg's point of view.   The reason is that rape and the threat of rape have been used so often to "remind" women that they are considered second class citizens.

Like the subject of lynching and the threat of lynching, it's an open wound to people who have lived with it. One needs to be careful.

Sure they both are easy ways to convey that the villain is evil.  So is pedophilia, which is an even more important thing for kids to be cautious of if you're making the "educational" defense.  But in all cases the education is much better left to family or councilors if possible.  

But if a show with a general audience like Dr Who wants to address a major social issue like one of these three, it should be careful to do it sensitively and in some depth, rather than merely using them as stereotype signposts for identifying the baddies. If nothing else it's a bit tacky.

{{Again, I haven't seen the specific episode in question so none of this may apply. }}
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:33 pm


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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:55 pm

I am in with a chance then cheers 

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:16 pm

David-

Spoiler:
'The reason is that rape and the threat of rape have been used so often to "remind" women that they are considered second class citizens. '

I dont disagree with this or what you go on to say- however I dont think its true of this episode.
I dont believe that is the purpose it is serving in this context.
The character in the episode is an acquirer of possessions- he even has a computer whose sole purpose is to scan and evaluate the likely worth of a an object or living person on the open market. And he is totally controlling and domineering in his possessiveness.
The line regards the Nefertiti character serve two purposes in the writing- firstly to put a final awful capping onto the presentation of his character being this way. And secondly to make him seem utterly irredeemable.


Excellent interview with Matt at comic con talking about his time as the Doctor, the character in general, the 50th, working with John Hurt and more-


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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by David H on Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:32 pm

Petty, is the episode in question one that I can watch out of order when the drive finally appears in the mailbox?
All social and editorial issues aside, dinosaurs are cool! :carrot: 
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:14 am

elephant yeah

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:11 pm

Karen Gillan has shaved her head for a role in the movie (movie right?) Guardians of the Galaxy. here posing with no other than the elven king, Thranduil.
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:35 pm


at 12.33 minutes in. take a look.
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:51 pm

Petty, is the episode in question one that I can watch out of order when the drive finally appears in the mailbox? - David

99% of it yeah- there are some smaller scenes that deal with the part of the story theme of Amy/Rory concerning their attempts to lead a 'normal' home life on one hand and life with the Doctor on the other. And it touches on the Doctors state of mind. But I cant think of anything hugely spoilery.
I thought you would have got the mem stick by now- I wonder if I can check up on it from my end- I will find out and let you know.

dinosaurs are cool! :carrot: - David

The Doctor agrees!

Mrs Figg did you withdraw a post? Sure there was one I read but didnt have time to respond to before regards the character of Nefretti and how she was portrayed.

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:21 pm

what do u think about Karen's hair?
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:32 pm


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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:34 pm

what do u think about Karen's hair?- Norc

Odd, not her hair, I mean I wrote something about that at start of last post I made but seems to be gone.
Mmm, maybe its the buckie.

I thought its very dedicated of her for a role- but her hair- her beautiful long flowing red hair! Sad


Good pic- the Moff and co always look like they are having so much fun!

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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by David H on Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:37 pm

Karen's haircut looks like chemo. I'm glad it's not.
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Norc on Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:36 pm

i think it shows a dedicated and selfless actress. more of those please.
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Re: Doctor Who [6]

Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:08 pm

watched 'The Lodger' episode for the first time. It was ok, not much more to say. The Doctor was quite lickable Shocked  likeable, but yeah, not bad episode for a Bogeyman in the attic trope.


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