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Post by Norc on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:22 pm

i needed a place to post this video, but i remember a while ago we had a discussion regarding the icelandic horses in the hobbit and horse-colour and what kind of horses the rohirim would use. i am trying to breath some fire into this discussion as i am very interested (in fact) in horses.

so we can all agree that the icelandic horse was a good choice for dwarves (as it resembles the dwarve's mentality, strong, short, independent, shaggy, smart and stubborn) but we can also all agree that the fur costumes out on them were rubbish (yes i know i said that these horses do have a thick winter coat, but the shire scenes were filmed in summer and PJ wanted the shaggy look so there u go.) and also i think we should've seen more of the horses, not loose them before they even made it to Rivendell.

so i thought i'de share this video of a pure and rather awesome icelandic horse in the action doing that trademark running thing, called tølt (have no idea what it is in english), pay attention to the rider, he sits completely still. (also a cute video showing how amazing these tough little guys are (accompanied by the devil's tune Rolling Eyes )



this is the shaggy look PJ wanted
Horses in middle earth 89c2a8ff3e5f870Horses in middle earth Winter-scene-winter-beard2Horses in middle earth Med%20rass%20i%20vindinnHorses in middle earth Iceland_horse

but this (sadly) is what we got.
Horses in middle earth Hobbit-prod-diary-5-freemanHorses in middle earth Hobbit-anoes-23dez2011-03
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:36 pm

Those poor horses must have been roasting under those fake fur suits. Mad 

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Post by Norc on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:47 pm

yes, i know, poor horses, and why couldn't they just look natural? i mean, they look like not-so-well-groomed-teddy bears.. it's a really bad fur-coat.
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Post by RA on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:24 am

Horses in middle earth Iceland_horse
I love you 

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Post by azriel on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:48 am

They are stunning arent they ! Smile 
I was reading that the Horses of the Rohirrim were mainly grey ? & that Orcs would steal the black ones often. That the Rohirrim horses were of great stature, strong & clean limbed, their grey coats glistened,& their long tails flowed in the wind, their manes were braided on their proud necks. In the section were Aragorn & co meet Eomer & they talk of finding 2 young hobbits, Eomer gives Aragorn a great dark grey horse called Hasufel, a smaller, lighter horse was given to Legolas, who removed the saddle, as he could ride freely. I cant see where it states the colour of the horse tho ?

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Post by Norc on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:49 am

(oooh no don't start with the grey thing again..)

in the movie at least they're all brown. we kinda have to get a lore master Nod
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Post by azriel on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:51 am

Razz  I remember now the great debate over grey & what shade of grey ! NO, I dont wanna open up THAT can of worms !

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:57 pm

You cant just go about casually saying things like - 'the Horses of the Rohirrim were mainly grey' pale 

You'll bring down the wrath (and worse) the knowledge of the Lore Masters upon us! affraid 

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Post by Elthir on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:09 pm

The debate was about grey and white if I recall correctly. Ah good times. And there may have been a grey area within that debate as well.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:14 pm

He was keen on words and using them when writing. Nod 

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Post by azriel on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:15 pm

oh fook !
Horses in middle earth Pbucket
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:19 pm

Hey Elthir- you edited your post so now my response just looks like a drunken rambling- ok it was a drunken rambling but at least it was a responding drunken rambling Mad 

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Post by Elthir on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:21 pm

Petty's last comment made a bit more sense before I edited [before his comment] before he saw that I edited [before his comment].


This post used words, although none were harmed or mistreated in the posting of them.


Edit: oh now my post makes less sense as I didn't see Petty's 'last' comment Very Happy
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:25 pm

This debate is quickly descending into a farce I tell you, a farce! Mad 

And yes Elthir, everybody did love the debate, nothing we love more than being able to argue for months over stuff no one else can even see the point in- its the Forumshire way. Twisted Evil
So do feel free to continue.

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Post by Elthir on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:29 pm

Wll I edited a part out... so off we go again. Maybe Wink

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Post by Elthir on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:31 pm

I didn't edit that last post though.

Edit: nor this one yet. Oh drat.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:33 pm

Mad 

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Post by azriel on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:35 pm

Erm, do you get days when you think...."oh bolly-olly-ocks to the lot of it ?" scratch  I think Im reaching that ? Wink 

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Post by Elthir on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:35 pm

And yes Elthir, everybody did love the debate, nothing we love more than being able to argue for months over stuff no one else can even see the point in- its the Forumshire way.

So do feel free to continue.
Ahh thanks Petty Smile

I edited this post a bit.
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Post by Eldorion on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:23 pm

Talking about horses is one of many things that can get one killed in Forumshire. Nod
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Post by Norc on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:25 pm

what happened to my lovely horse thread Sad
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:52 pm

Ironically enough its being norced! Very Happy

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Post by David H on Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:50 am

Norc wrote:a pure and rather awesome icelandic horse in the action doing that trademark running thing, called tølt (have no idea what it is in english), pay attention to the rider, he sits completely still.
What you called "actions" are called gaits in English.  That would include walk, trot , canter, gallop etc.  I can't watch the video on my computer, but I'm guessing the tølt is a kind of ambling gate where all feet hit the ground separately. We sometimes call it a single-foot because of that, but that may be an American term. I don't know...

Yes, the Icelandic horses are beautiful, intelligent and kind. My neighbor a few miles away has two of them. I think if I tried to ride one my toes would drag though. They must have had tiny vikings in Iceland!
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Post by David H on Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:10 am

Prehistoric Horse Genome Decoded, Pushing Back Origins Of Equine Lineage By 2 Million Years
The humble horse has provided the oldest full genome sequence of any species — from a specimen more than half a million years old, found frozen in the permafrost of the Canadian Arctic. The finding, published in Nature today, pushes back the known origins of the equine lineage by about 2 million years, and yields a variety of evolutionary insights.

The sequence was extracted from a foot bone of a horse that lived between 780,000 and 560,000 years ago. Shocked By sequencing the animal's genome, along with those of a 43,000-year-old horse, five modern domestic horse breeds, a wild Przewalski’s horse and a donkey, researchers were able to trace the evolutionary history of the horse family in unprecedented detail. They estimate that the ancient ancestor of the modern Equus genus, which includes horses, donkeys and zebras, branched off from other animal lineages about 4 million years ago — twice as long ago as scientists had previously thought.

“We have beaten the time barrier,” says evolutionary biologist Ludovic Orlando of the University of Copenhagen, who led the work with colleague Eske Willerslev. Noting that the oldest DNA sequenced before this came from a polar bear between 110,000 and 130,000 years old2, Orlando says: “All of a sudden, you have access to many more extinct species than you could have ever dreamed of sequencing before.”

The team was able to sequence such old DNA partly because of the freezing ground temperatures in the area where the bone was found, which would have slowed the rate of DNA decay.

But the researchers were also successful because they had perfected techniques for extracting and preparing the DNA to preserve its quality for sequencing. They targeted tissue within the fossil which has high DNA content, such as collagen. They also combined DNA sequencing techniques to get maximum DNA coverage — using routine next-generation sequencing with single-molecule sequencing in which a machine directly reads the DNA without the need to amplify it up which can lose some DNA sequences.

Now, a major challenge for the field is to apply these techniques to other species such as ancient human species, including Homo heidelbergensis and Homo erectus, which lived hundreds of thousands to more than 1 million years ago. But such specimens are unlikely to be found buried in the DNA-preserving permafrost.

”The real challenge right now in the field is combining these next-generation sequencing technologies with the possibility of analysing non-permafrost samples,” says Carles Lalueza-Fox, a palaeogeneticist at the Institute of Evolutionary Biology in Barcelona, Spain.

Orlando and Willerslev's paper hints at the other types of discovery that these technologies can enable. Their team, for instance, was able to support the contention that the Przewalski’s horse (Equus ferus przewalskii)Horses in middle earth R-ANCIENT-HORSE-large570, which was brought back from near-extinction in Mongolia by captive-breeding programmes, is truly the last remaining wild horse when compared genetically with domesticated horses.

The researchers were also able to trace the size of the horse population over time by looking for genomic signatures of population size, and were thus able to show that populations grew in periods of abundant grassland, in between times of extreme cold.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:01 am

You see now Azriel what comes of casually mentioning horse colours! Evil or Very Mad 

{{{{ although admittedly that was an interesting piece David}}}}

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