A Song of Ice and Fire [2]

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Post by Eldorion on Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:26 pm

The whole hair thing is stupid.  It all started because some blogger was unable to notice that Harrington had his hair slicked back.  It looks exactly the same as it has every other time he's made an appearance in the last 2-3 years while wearing hair product. At the very most he got the ends trimmed by an inch or two, which will grow back before they begin filming again next year.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:47 pm

metrosexuals and their gel No

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Post by Bluebottle on Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:57 am

Ah. Oh, well. I still find it amusing that someones haircut can be the basis of this amount of speculation. Razz  

It is interesting to speculate though, as..

Spoiler:
even us book readers can't really know if he will be coming back.

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Post by Sinister71 on Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:47 am

I just read the first book, gotta say I loved it. Been a fan of the series on HBO for a couple years now. I got into it late but am now hooked. Waiting on book 2 to come back to the library. I figure I'll read them this way first or at least until I catch up with Martin's writing them lol

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Post by Eldorion on Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:32 am

Enjoy the books, Sin! I'm glad you're liking them. I've maintained since I read it that A Storm of Swords is the greatest fantasy novel since LOTR; the second half of that one in particular is a real treat.
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Post by Sinister71 on Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:50 am

So far so good Thumbs Up

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Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:54 pm

Ah, another one joins the fold. Very Happy I have to agree with Eldo on A Storm of Swords. It's stunningly good. Really something to look forward to.

If, or perhaps I should say when, you get around to book 4, do consider trying the combined reading of the last two books I talked about above. A lot of people have found book four to be quite dragging, and I found combining the books helped a lot in alleviating that.

The last two books takes place at the same time, but the characers are divided geographically. A decision made more for publishing reasons than anything else.

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Post by Sinister71 on Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:31 pm

Picked up book 2 at the library this morning. I'll probably start it tonight or tomorrow

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Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:05 pm

Really liked this quote by George on the general appreciation of fantasy, in general, and Tolkien, in particular as part of English literature.

Thing's are definitely changing, but I don't think we're there yet. I've seen an amazing change in my lifetime. When I was young and reading science fiction books in school, I had teachers take it away from me saying "You're a smart kid, why are you reading this garbage. You should be reading real books."

And that was the 1950s and early 1960s. That was kind of the attitude. There are still ghosts of that around. I mean, fantasy and science fiction are now taught in many colleges, they're revived in distinguished publications, places like the Wall Street Journal, Time Magazine, the New York Times. 40-50 years ago that wasn't true. If they covered science fiction and fantasy at all, it would be in a special column that appearred once a month. And they would be expected to review 12 books all at once. While the latest big mainstream novel got five pages all to itself. We are seeing that breaking doewn, but were still not there entirerly.

Yes, fantasy and science fiction is taught in colleges. But it's thought in special courses for science fiction and fantasy or in popular culture courses, as part of the popular culture curriculum. We don't see even a book like JRR Tolkiens Lord of the Rings thought in english literature as part of the canon of the great books of english literature. Which it should be. We often say that one of the greatest tests of great literature is "Does it survive over time?" And Tolkien wrote the book in the 40s, it came out in the 50s and here we are in 2014 and millions of peoiple are still reading it. So, I think it has suirvived the test of time. Far more than the books that were lauded and that may won the Nobel prize or the Pulitzer prize or whatever prize they were giving in 1956, but it still hasn't been admitted to canon.

But i think eventually that will come. I don't know if it will come in my lifetime or not, but I can't complain. I have a lot of readers and I have been reviewed in some amazing publications and we have this terrific tv show. So, I'm not going to do a Rodney Dangerfield number on you here.  

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Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:13 pm

From here;


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Post by Bluebottle on Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:54 pm

I found this talk with George and  Tom Doherty, the publisher behind Tor books, quite interesting.


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Post by Sinister71 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:56 am

Bluebottle wrote:I found this talk with George and  Tom Doherty, the publisher behind Tor books, quite interesting.


Thats funny I just watched this video about noon today. I love hearing Martin talk about his books and the show and stuff

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Post by Bluebottle on Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:22 pm

Yeah, I find him a genuinely interesting guy. And I particularily like these long talks he gives. Actually stumbling across interviews of him was a big part of me going to the step of actually reading the books.

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Post by halfwise on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:02 pm

There's been so many interviews posted of him - before I invest the time, is there anything new and fresh about this one?

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Post by Bluebottle on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:08 pm

It does include the publisher behind Tor books, who gives a seperate quite interesting perspective on the fantasy genre I thought. And the interviewers perhaps push George a bit further on his answers here, one of them being a professor of media studies at Brown. Shrugging

But, hey, I perfectly understand that these are long intervies/talks, and I guess you might have to find the format interesting to enjoy them.

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Post by halfwise on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:19 pm

I usually enjoy George, but if it's just retreading old ground I would skip. But as this one seems to have some fresh themes, tonight I may pour myself a buckie and settle in to it.

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Post by Bluebottle on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:36 pm

True, there often tends to be some retreading And I guess that's true with most people, not just with George. He does have his prefered ways of answering certain questions. But I do find that he when queried about a new subject or an old subject in a different way tends to come up with some pretty interesting perspectives. Like the quote about his views on the fantasy genre in the wider perspective of the field of english litterature I posted on the last page.

Anyway, hope you enjoy it.

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Post by Bluebottle on Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:21 pm

Just for those who think Stannis lacks a sense of humour.

"A sacrifice will prove our faith still burns true, Sire," Clayton Suggs had told the king. And Godry the Giantslayer said, "The old gods of the north have sent this storm upon us. Only R'hllor can end it. We must give him an unbeliever."

"Half my army is made up of unbelievers," Stannis had replied. "I will have no burnings. Pray harder.

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."

"Robert could piss in a cup and men would call it wine, but I offer them pure cold water and they squint in suspicion and mutter to each other about how queer it tastes." Stannis ground his teeth. "If someone said I had magicked myself into a boar to kill Robert, likely they would believe that as well."

"You haggle like a crone with a codfish, Lord Snow. Did Ned Stark father you on some fishwife?"

Stannis ground his teeth. “It is not my wish to tamper with your rights and traditions. As to royal guidance, Janos, if you mean that I ought to tell your brothers to choose you, have the courage to say so.”
That took Lord Janos aback. He smiled uncertainly and began to sweat, but Bowen Marsh beside him said, “Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?
“Any of you, I would think. Even the cook.”

"He has kings' blood in his veins. You have seen what even a little of that blood could do - "

"I saw you burn some leeches."

"And two false kings are dead."

"Robb Stark was murdered by Lord Walder of the Crossing, and we have heard that Balon Greyjoy fell from a bridge. Who did your leeches kill?"

"Do you doubt the power of R'hllor?"

No. Davos remembered too well the living shadow that had squirmed from out her womb that night beneath Storm's End, its black hands pressing at her thighs. I must go carefully here, or some shadow may come seeking me as well. "Even an onion smuggler knows two onions from three. You are short a king, my lady."

Stannis gave a snort of laughter. "He has you there, my lady. Two is not three."

"To be sure, Your Grace. One king might die by chance, even two . . . but three? if Joffrey should die in the midst of all his power, surrounded by his armies and his Kingsguard, would not that show the power of the Lord at work?"

"It might." The king spoke as if he grudged each word.

"Or not." Davos did his best to hide his fear.

"Joffrey shall die," Queen Selyse declared, serene in her confidence.

"It may be that he is dead already," Ser Axell added.

Stannis looked at them with annoyance. "Are you trained crows, to croak at me in turns? Enough."

Very Happy

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“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
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Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:11 am

Perhaps my favourite quote from all five books.

Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year.

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Post by halfwise on Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:55 am

That last one must have been the Queen of Thorns. Bless Diana Rigg for making that part sing.

Good point about Stannis having a cutting sense of humor - funny how G.R.R.M. decided to make all the Baratheons so different you never would have thought they were related unless told so, but I've seen brothers like that, so it works.

My favorite quote is still the one about Tywin threatening to smile, which I posted here somewhere but can't be arsed to look it up. Finding things in the books can take hours.

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Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:57 pm

Actually it's..

Spoiler:
by Jamies aunt Genna, outside the walls of Riverrun.

I love it, as she states plainly what all the other Lannisters refuse to admit. That it was Tyrion who inherited his fathers abilities, his talent for political maneuvering. Tywin would never admit it and both Jamie and Cersei foolishly thought it was them. Longer quote form the wiki;

When she reminisced to Jaime about his father Tywin and felt less protected with him gone, Jaime tried to reassure her that Tywin had left a son, her aunt replied she knew that and that was what scared her the most. When Jaime asked why her reply was...
“Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year."

And with both Tywinn and Tyrion gone, she rightfully feares for the future of the Lannisters.

I do agree about Diana Rigg though. Nod

As for the quote, I'm guessing you mean this.

Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold.

Very Happy

There are other good ones about his smiles too.

Men say Tywin never smiled, but he smiled when he wed your mother, and when Aerys made him Hand. When Tarbeck Hall came crashing down on Lady Ellyn, that scheming bitch, Tyg claimed he smiled then, and he smiled at your birth, Jaime, I saw with my own eyes.

There's also a very sad one, about Genna having heard that Tywin smiled on his bier, that I can't find. And being dissapointed at Jamie putting it down to the body decomposing, as she had thought Tyrion had made Tywin smile with his last act, that he finally had won his fathers respect.

Both are from Jamies conversation with Genna in that chapter. That's what I love about Georges writing. In a random chapter, with characters you don't particularily care about, he can make moments like that happen.


Last edited by Bluebottle on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Bluebottle on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:01 pm

And, yeah, Stannis is pretty.. sardonic. To put it lightly. Laughing Particularily in the books. And surprisingly dismissive of the whole R'hlor faith. In the series they turned him into a straightforward zealot, at a loss to both the character and the story in my opinion.

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Post by Eldorion on Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:31 pm

Honestly, despite my complaints about the slowed pace (especially in the fourth book), Martin's writing from chapter to chapter remains remarkably consistent and might even be improving. There are so many great moments and characters throughout all the books. I always enjoy your highlighting quotes, Blue. Nod
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Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:06 am

Ah, well I'm glad someone appreciates it. Smile I loves those little moments that hint at deapth you don't always get in the straight narrative. I just restarted that combined ADWDs/AFFCs reread, mostly because the audiobook was all I had on my phone and I needed something to listen to, and I really love those early Tyrion chapters where he interacts with Illyrio. I'm not sure I there's so many memorable quotes though. I do love Illyrios comment about wine, when Tyrion struggles to find a reason to carry on.

“Is it so? I wonder. If you would sooner drown in wine, say the word and it shall be done, and quickly. Drowning cup by cup wastes time and wine both.”
 
And the thing about crowning Myrcella.

“My niece Myrcella is in Dorne, as it happens. And I have half a mind to make her a queen.”

Illyrio smiled as his serving men spooned out bowls of black cherries in sweet cream for them both. “What has this poor child done to you that you would wish her dead?”

“Even a kinslayer is not required to slay all his kin,” said Tyrion, wounded. “Queen her, I said. Not kill her.”

The cheesemonger spooned up cherries. “In Volantis they use a coin with a crown on one face and a death’s-head on the other. Yet it is the same coin. To queen her is to kill her. Dorne might rise for Myrcella, but Dorne alone is not enough. If you are as clever as our friend insists, you know this.”

Tyrion looked at the fat man with new interest. He is right on both counts. To queen her is to kill her. And I knew that.

That ties in quite well with Gennas point about Tyrions political ability I posted above. And it's interesting to go to the Dornish storyline after reading that, and see that the only character there to grasp the same fact is Dorran.

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“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
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Post by Bluebottle on Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:09 am

From the following Samwell chapter, which I couldn't help but giggle at. Razz

“A man has duties to his friends as well. If not for us, Janos Slynt might be our lord commander. Lord Janos would have sent Snow ranging naked on a mule. ‘Scamper on up to Craster’s Keep,’ he would have said, ‘and fetch me back the Old Bear’s cloak and boots.’ We saved him from that, but now he has too many duties to drink a cup of mulled wine by the fire?”

You did try George, you did try.

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“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
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